Featured The Church Universal

It's been my experience that local church-onlyers typically focus on religious works instead of the finished work of Christ; what the church does instead of who we are in Christ. We are the Church because of what Christ has done, not because of what we do. Some don't like the truth of the Church/Body/Priesthood because they cannot control it. Local churches can be controlled by authoritative men. Under the New Covenant, all believers are directly under the authority of Christ as our High Priest with the Holy Spirit convicting the individual apart from the self-righteous mediation of men.


Universal Church believers see the existence & purpose of both the Universal & local church in Scripture & in life. That which can be seen with the physical eyes & that which is seen spiritually. Local-onlyers can only see that which is visible to the flesh. This is why local-onlyers generally focus on rules, the law, & works.

 

"Your experience"? Your experience has been very narrow hasn't it?

 

Fundamental Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Southern Baptist...seminary & service... debating pastors & teachers from many denominations. No, my experience is much more varied than you want to believe. My observations extend to posters on BB. Those who reject the truth of the Church typically focus on works & law.

 

We have a so-called "Charismatic" Baptist on the board. She, many times, puts her experiences as more important than the Word itself. Like most Charismatics doctrine is based on experience instead of the other way around.
You might have some good fellowship there.
My position is based on the Word of God, not on your experiences.
Please remember that the Baptist position is that:
The Bible is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
With that, your experience means little to me.

 

Several members have posted NUMEROUS Biblical references to the Church. The Church/Body of Christ/Priesthood of the believers is undoubtedly of God. Your inability to see the Body is troubling. My previous comment was obviously concerning the attitudes I have witnessed from the local-onlyers, not a reiteration of the established Biblical truth of the New Covenant Church. Those who cannot see the spiritual Church focus on physical works. Now, why don't you attempt to respond to the substance of what I said instead of positing a false argument?

If you are lumping me in with a Charismatic, would it be appropriate for me to lump you in with legalistic fundies?

 

I don't reply to experiences. I reply to Scripture. The "universal church" concept has no basis in Scripture. All you have done is smeared and thrown personal attacks at those who take that stated position. I have nothing to respond to.

 

There is a WHOLE LOT of TRUTH in that post.

 

I call it institutionalism.

Christ did not purchase all believers with His blood in one way, and also purchase a collection of local institutions with His blood in yet another way. He purchased "the church" with His blood. If you are bought with His blood, you are a member of "the church." Now, go find an assembly of like-minded believers who follow the instructions for how Christ wants them to manage their gatherings.

 

I highly resent your implication that local church advocates focus on works. You have no idea what you are talking about, other than you like to talk. Name one function of the Universal Church on this earth. No one said the Universal Church does not exist. No one in this thread is local church only. If you are universal church only, then my suggestion is you trot down to your local Catholic church.

 

There is no truth to it. I cannot believe what these posts are producing. If you all do not agree with Baptist distinctives, and feel that Baptist distinctives do not line up with Scripture, then find a denomination that suits your warped doctrine.

 

Do you copy & paste without reading what you are pasting? "Universal Church believers see the existence & purpose of both the Universal & local church in Scripture & in life. That which can be seen with the physical eyes & that which is seen spiritually." Now, try commenting based on what I actually stated.

 

God inhabits individuals; not a group, building, or a “sanctuary”
Acts 1 The “Great Commission” was not empowered until after the baptism in the Spirit
Acts 7:48, 17:24 God dwells in believers, not buildings
Acts 14:27 Paul & Barnabas gathered the church together
Matt 27:51, Mk 15:38, Luke 23:45 The time of a building being the earthly representation of the glory, presence, and person of God ended when the veil was rent.
Acts 2:46, 5:42 The church in Jerusalem met in many homes & in the temple.
Acts 20:28 Did Jesus only die for the official members of a local church or for all people?

Local: A small group of believers
Matthew 18:19-20 God honors the voluntary assembly of two or more believers.
Acts 16:5 The churches were established in faith, and increased in number daily
Romans 16:4 the churches of the Gentiles

City-wide: All believers in a city
Acts 8:1-3, 11:22, 15:4 the church in Jerusalem, 3,000 added in one day, this was not a
single assembled group. Saul persecuted the church, not the churches.

All believers in a region
Acts 9:31 the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace

All believers of all nations; all members of the Body
Matthew 16:18 Christ said, "I will build my church", singular, future
John 10:14-16 Christ is the sole shepherd of one flock
Acts 2:47 God (NOT men) added to the assembly
Galatians 3:15 The covenant is universally confirmed with all who believe. All believers
partake equally in its benefits. i.e. the bride of Christ
Ephesians 1:22-23 Christ is the Head of the church/body
Ephesians 3:6-18 Equal heirs of His body
Ephesians 3:21 Glory in the church at Ephesus throughout all ages? Where is that “church” today?
Ephesians 5:22-32 He will present to Himself a singular glorious church. He is the Head of one
Body. Jesus and the church body are ONE flesh. He has ONE bride. Christ is not a
polygamist. Comprehend with ALL saints. The context is clearly universal.
Col 1:18 & 24 The Body is the church
Romans 10:12, Colossians 3:11, 1 Corinthians 12:13 Under the law, the Jews were
privileged above the Gentiles. Under grace, no person or group of people are
privileged above any other person or group of people in the family of God.
Hebrews 2:12, Psalm 22:22 David praised God in the midst of the church/congregation (not a
New Testament church)

 

Saturn/neptune postd...

One of our baptist distictives is the priesthood of the believer, which you seem to not like very much.

And the warped doctrine is ((Calvinism))

 

No one here denies that. It seems that you need a good working definition of a "local church."

Not so. The Great Commission was given in Mat.28:18,20 before the Day of Pentecost.

non sequitor.
You are totally off topic. Do you think you are talking to the heathen? To those who worship the temple of Dianna, and "the unknown god"? Think again! You are either very ignorant or very insulting, you can inform us of which one.

Let's look at that.
Acts 14:26 And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the grace of God for the work which they fulfilled.
27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
--They were sent from the church at Antioch and they returned to the local church at Antioch. When they called the church to assemble, they did. And then they rehearsed to that particular assembly or local church all that they had done on that missionary journey. There is no universal church here. Context is a good thing isn't it?

another non sequitor.
What has that got to do with the local church or this topic?
Absolutely nothing.

In Acts 2 the church at Jerusalem met in the Temple. The time came when they were no longer able to meet in the Temple because of opposition and persecution. They also met in synagogues. Eventually they met in homes, fields and even cemeteries. They met in barns. They met wherever they could. Your point??

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
--Your exegesis of this verse is flawed. At this point they were still meeting in the Temple for corporate worship. They met in homes for discipleship and for fellowship. We need to do the same thing. We need to follow the same pattern. We need to be using our own homes, and be hospitable to others, inviting them over for fellowship, Bible study, time of prayer, etc. That is what was going on here.
"They ceased not to teach and preach Christ." That is why they met in homes. They couldn't have the use of the Temple all the time.

Who was he speaking to? He was speaking to the leaders of the church at Ephesus. Do you take the Bible at face value or not?

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
--The church which he is referring to is the same as in verse 17, the church at Ephesus, which he purchased with his own blood. Just as he purchased the church at Ephesus with his own blood, so he purchased every Bible believing church with his own blood. The word is used generically.

A small group of believers is not a local church. You certainly need to study this subject.

You can't prove that. There was only one church, the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, that Paul had a chance to persecute. What other churches were there before he was saved? There weren't any! Those 3,000 added to the "church" was the church at Jerusalem. It was a large church, wasn't it? But it was the local church at Jerusalem, which met at the Temple daily, and the Lord added unto it daily.

Why do you deliberately misquote the verse?
Acts 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Not the so-called U-church, that doesn't exist! But it was all the churches that had rest.

The J.W.'s like to use that verse the same way you do.
Christ is the head of every Bible believing church. If he is not the head of your church then who is? It is either Christ or an anti-christ? You choose.

Yes, it was the local assembly in Jerusalem, the only assembly that existed at that time.

First, what covenant are you talking about? We are speaking of the local church not covenants.
Second, why bring up the bride of Christ? That is another red herring. I didn't say anything about the bride of Christ. Start another thread if you want to talk about that. Stay on topic.

Yes, the one in Ephesus, just as he said in Acts 20. The Bible is consistent isn't it. And as He is the head of the body at Ephesus so is he the head of every body of believers, or is he not the head of yours?

Every member of every "body" or assembly is equal to each other.

Read the book of Revelation and perhaps you will have some idea.
Paul's mission was to start churches not a "church".
There is no such thing as a U-church. Where is it today? Where does it assemble? The word is ekklesia and has the meaning of assembly. It is impossible to have an unassembled assembly. It is a contradiction of terms; a kind of an oxymoron, like: "pretty ugly," "random pattern," and "clearly confused," which you clearly are. The difference between the ones that I just gave is that they make sense in the English language as well known idioms. "unassembled assembly" though an oxymoron, doesn't even make sense. It is just a plain contradiction.

"Clearly confused."
A non sequitor. This is future. It is speaking more of the bride of Christ. When all believers will be "assembled" together in heaven then that will be the one and only time that we will be a "universal church," but not until that time. We cannot assemble universally on this earth, but only in heaven.
Col 1:18 & 24 The Body is the church
Romans 10:12, Colossians 3:11, 1 Corinthians 12:13 Under the law, the Jews were privileged above the Gentiles. Under grace, no person or group of people are privileged above any other person or group of people in the family of God.[/quote]
Study 1Cor.12. Paul compares the local church to a body with many members. This analogy can only refer to a local church. As the body has many members so does the local church. The Corinthians wanted to have different gifts. They coveted some (like tongues) more than others. Paul encouraged them to use the gifts that God had given them. Near the end of the chapter he tells them:
When one member suffers then all the members suffer with him.
When one member rejoices then all the members rejoice with him.
--Obvious applicable only to a local church. In a so-called U-church, how would a believer in Africa rejoice or suffer with another believer in South America, that he has never heard or seen, and doesn't know exists. It is applicable only to the local church, as is the rest of the chapter.
Hebrews 2:12, Psalm 22:22 David praised God in the midst of the church/congregation (not a New Testament church)[/QUOTE]
You are right. David never went to a local church, Duh!
The church is a NT organization that began at Pentecost. David worshiped at the tabernacle.

Hebrews 2:12 is better translated:
Hebrews 2:12 saying, "I will declare your name to my brothers. In the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise." WEB.
It is a Messianic Psalm being quoted by the author of Hebrews, and he is referring to Christ. I don't know what your problem is.

 

Sounds right to me.

 

The reference to FBC Jerusalem was indeed a light-hearted bit of humor with some seriousness undergirding it.

The Baptists I've been associated with since childhood believed that the doctrines and practices of today are patterned after doctrine and practice of New Testament times. Had a name been necessary for those first-century believers, Baptist would have been entirely appropriate.

 

The One church does not assemble until the last day.

The one assembly does not assemble until the last day.

An un assembled .......assembly.....is not a "church as such"

While you can speak of The Church...in a general sense.....it can only be spoken of in the way we speak of The Jury....

It was not a generic jury that declared OJ simpson not guilty...it was a specific Jury...the OJ jury that did it.
it was not a general nebulous jury somewhere that did it.All jury memebers world wide did not do it.
There was a specific jury that met at a particular time that did it.


In other words......if 4 members of 1st baptist church meet.....it cannot rightly be said to be a meeting of the church....but of fellowship of Kingdom members.....

 

That depends how big the church is.
Most of my life I have worked in small churches.
There have been times when we have had only a half dozen at a prayer meeting.
"The church will meet for visitation on Tuesday evenings at 6:30 p.m."
When only two to four show up, is that the church?

It was in the context of the local church that Jesus said:
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
--I believe the context of that verse is a modern day business meeting of a local church.