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Featured The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Sep 13, 2017.

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  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
    to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

    Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

    The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
    i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
    The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
    but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
    John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
    Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

    John 14 (NLT, 2007)
    15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
    16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
    17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
    because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
    20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
    21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
    And because they love me, my Father will love them.
    And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
    23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
    and we will come and make our home with each of them.
    24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

    Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
    3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
    4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
    that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
    5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
    That is how we know we are living in him.

    John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15
    John 15 (NLT, 2007)
    1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
    2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
    4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
    is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
    5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
    Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
    6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
    Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
    8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
    9 Remain in my love.
    10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
    just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

    Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
    Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.
    And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).
    So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!
    “To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
    In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
    is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
    And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s
    Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
    If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
    … There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
    eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
    remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian
    lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
    and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …
    In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
    If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without
    also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the
    same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,
    we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ,
    we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”

    … Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
    if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).
    “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
    the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)

    Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
    because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!
    “But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains
    in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent
    of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”

    … Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    (the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.
    … So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,
    letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

    “We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;
    we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”

    … Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    “For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through
    the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally). For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    no....
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Per Paul, believe on the Lord jesus, and confess that he is the Lord and was raised from the dead for your sake, and you are now saved!
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    For two millennia people have said we are entering the last days.
    Some 50 years ago, I remember my dad, who was our Youth Director, telling us
    that he believed that the Lord would return in his lifetime.

    Dad went to meet the Lord back in 1993. Methinks that is one time my dad was wrong.
     
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  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    We have been in the end times since the resurrection of Christ.

    No, I have pretty much ignored your works based salvation rants.
     
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  6. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Yes, but the Epistles give dozens of verses which teach conditional salvation.
    Most believers seem to skip right over all of those "IF" words!
    Dr. Thomas Hale says ... ALL of God's promises are conditional.
     
  7. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    News Flash ...
    God's heavier judgments have finally really begun to come upon America:
    1) Houston
    2) Florida (and above)
    3) earthquakes on east and west coasts
    4) famine and disease
    3 and 4 to follow soon.
     
  8. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Yes, and you have ignored my advice to reconcile
    the so-called OSAS NT verses with the anti-OSAS NT verses.
     
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Sir, the "work" of God is simply to believe on his Son, and the "commandments" are to Love God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself............Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6:29

    But you cannot love God with all your heart until "the Spirit of God abides in you" .
    1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    And when the moment you first beleive and he "abides" in you, it then says that you "hath" everlasting life, meaning you POSSESS everlasting life, it's YOURS because you have "passed from death unto life" AND THEN it says that you "shall not come into condemnation". (John 5:24) What part of "shall not come into condemnation" do you not understand?
     
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  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No such things. I can explain them to you but I cannot understand them for you.
     
  11. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Thank you, I am familiar with the so-called OSAS NT verses.
    But, I have also been given revelation on the relevance of the anti-OSAS NT verses,
    and have been led to emphasize them to people.
    Just why do you insist that we need not believe and act on all of the NT verses?
     
  12. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Sorry, I neglected to state that these judgments
    will be coming with increasing (escalating) devastation.
     
  13. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    First of all, I insisted nothing of the sort. If you think that whatever verses you may be referring to contradict "the security of the believer" doctrine, then you simply do not understand them.
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, you haven't. You are not an Apostle, nor are you closely associated with an Apostle. The canon closed with the death of John around 102 AD. At that time revelation ceased.
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Please post where SheepWhisperer or anyone else in this thread has insisted we need not believe and act on all NT verses.

    If you cannot post such evidence perhaps an apology is in order.
     
  16. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Yes, we now only get "God's word" from "God's word". There are no new revelations.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The problems here with your stance is that there are NO additional revelations coming forth from God in an inspired fashion since John died, and the Holy Spirit is not behind your alleged ones, as those are opposite of what He inspired already to us in the bible itself!
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nor does the Holy Spirit give us illumination that is contrary to what was already written down to us regarding security of those now in Christ!
     
  19. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    The Holy Spirit illuminates God's Word and testifies of and exalts the Lord Jesus Christ. He "reproves the world of sin, righteousness and judgment" and he always "agrees in one" with "the Word" and the Father.

    If, IF new revelations were possible,(which they aren't) how would people know which ones were of God and which ones were not? They couldn't. But thankfully the Word of God is perfect and complete and the standard by which we know the things and the will of God.
     
  20. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Oh yes, and the Holy Ghost does not make people babble in jibberish either. The "tongues" at Pentecost were LANGUAGES. But we'll save that one for another debate.
     
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