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Featured The Context of the Parenthesis Church

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by revmwc, May 9, 2015.

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  1. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
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    Thats a Nice Calvinist reading, which I do consider my self a Calvinist, part of the reason I have been studying Covenant Theology a bit more :)
    Although I would say that everything was paid for on the Cross. You know "It Is Finished" and all that. Besides as I said if anyone is paying the price it is the earth itself considering everything that happens to the earth during the tribulation.
     
    #61 blessedwife318, May 10, 2015
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  2. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
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    I would agree with this as well.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You are exactly correct B318...this is one of the teachings that started to erode my confidence in some of the premill guides I was first being taught by....

    You show quite correctly that any believer is called to be a saint..... Under the guise of "rightly dividing the word"...many will actually divide the scripture until it is hardly coherent if you follow their leading:laugh:

    they try and get around it several different ways...they invent different kinds of saints:laugh: he is a regular church age saint, this other guy is a tribulation saint,the 144000 become jewish evangelists,...you need a scorecard to keep up with it:wavey:
    nicely done...



    I

    I am in between postmill and amill for now....even historic premill makes more sense that the dispy premill.

    ,

    every believer believes in the 1000 yr reign, some think the thousand yrs is a metaphor for the full duration of the reign of Jesus before the last day.
    So they believe in a literal reign with a symbolic number for the full amount of time. Some saints who were put to death are still reigning In Christ now in heaven and it has been more than a physical 1000 yr period.

    I have read where many early church people believed Jesus was literally speaking of the first 1000 yrs after the ascencion, so then when it went past that, they reconsidered the issue.:thumbsup:
    I believe it is the last day...jn 6

    The original premill view was run out of town....so now you get those who say, oh wait....I do not believe what you say, and they give OR. grief, but he is giving the original position...

    The parenthesis was taught.....that when Israel rejected Jesus....they were put on hold.....until the fullness of the gentiles be come in.
     
  4. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
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    That is what I was taught at my Dispensational Bible College. I really should look into the difference between historical pre-mill and dispensational pre-mill.
     
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Following are some comments I have posted before but they are worth reading again in my opinion.

     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Covenant theologians see God's covenant as over-riding all of it.

    There is ONE BODY......the language of the Covenant is everywhere , OT NT...

    I will be to you a God...you shall be to me a people.

    There were saints before Israel was a physical nation, there were saints when Israel was a theocracy, there are saints in the new Christian Israel of God.:thumbsup:
     
  7. blessedwife318

    blessedwife318 Well-Known Member
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    You know I had never thought about the fact that the silence argument could be used as a double edged sword.

    Another thought I have always had is how often do you mention someone in a letter after establishing who you are talking to. When I was emailing my husband back when we were online dating, I didn't use his name every other sentence. I probably only used it once in the entire letter, at the beginning. I've also always thought it was strange that Revelation is clearly written to the Churches yet according to pre-tribbers there is nothing in it that the church needs to know since they will not be here. I know they would argue that it is written for the 'tribulation saints' but they are not addressed, the church is what is addressed.
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You make a most important point. I believe that the Book of Revelation was written as a Book of Comfort and Victory for the early Church and it is a Book of Comfort and Victory for the Church today. Given some of the events pictured in Revelation we might ask how this book could Comfort those undergoing severe persecution. But the book shows GOD's judgment on those in opposition to HIM and the final Victory is to the Saints through Jesus Christ.

    If we look at the Old Testament we see where GOD may use a nation/people to chasten Israel but we then see GOD's subsequent judgment on the nation/people, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and those nations are no more. In Daniel I believe we are shown GOD's judgment on these nations as well as the Roman Empire. The judgment on the Roman Empire for their persecution of the Church did not occur until 300 years or so after the death of Jesus Christ but they were judged.

    Jesus Christ promised the Saints that they would suffer persecution/tribulation:

    John 16:33. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    But HE also promised:

    Hebrews 13:5. Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
     
  9. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    It is significant that the initial promise of the Redeemer is made in Genesis 3:15. The initial display of the Grace of GOD is also shown in Genesis 3 when HE shed the first blood to make a covering, an atonement, for the rebellion of Adam and Eve!
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes...this is how God began to reveal His eternal purpose to man...

    notice the angel speaks of it as an accomplished fact at the incarnation;
     
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The work of man's redemption is complete, it is Finished. But Paul says, Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." The earth itself is groaning under the curse, all of creation too must be redeemed.
     
  12. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    21" Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body."

    That happens when God's wrath is poured out in the Tribulation. Followed by the 1000 year reign that is "the glorious liberty of the children of God." The believers will be kept from that wrath Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10.
     
    #72 revmwc, May 10, 2015
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  13. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    Christ came to redeem all that Adam lost and He is a perfect redeemer a complete redeemer. He is the second and Last Adam. He will bring deliverance to every thing that came under Adam’s curse. He will redeem the earth. The desert shall blossom like the rose. He will redeem the vegetables. Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. Isaiah 11:6-9 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." The redeemer will bring the Redemption of Creation. Adam lost dominion over the earth, man must battle the forces of the curse that has affected nature. Fight the weeds, thistles, insects, storms, droughts and floods. After the flood animals begin to prey upon one another. Death, groaning and destruction are everywhere. Adam lost his inheritance, but God provided a plan of redemption whereby all that Adam lost will be redeemed. All this is contained in the little book that is in the hand of the one on the throne. The little book we see in Revelation Chapter 5. The seven sealed book which contains the terms on which Adam’s lost estate may be redeemed.
     
    #73 revmwc, May 10, 2015
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  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Grrreaaat Tribulation was the price paid to redee the earth!

    To whom was the price paid. Who was bought off by the Great Tribulation!
     
  15. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    The curse is paid off by the Tribulation. The curse on all creation. The terms of the scroll of redemption as we see in Leviticus as the unholy trinity reigns for the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation. Isaiah shows us the Kingdom where creation is restored.
    Isaiah 11:6-9 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."
     
  16. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Still nonsense. The so-called Grreaat Tribulation and the 1000 year reign, which we are now enjoying, have nothing to do with the renewal of the earth and that passage from Romans!
     
  17. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Who received payment for the second time?
     
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I get it ....they don't believe that God is reining now so they create this elaborate story to feel better about themselves....that they will get sucked up into the stratious sphere while the rest suffer some form of puragatory:tear:
     
  19. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Well, seeing that you are the master in this area, perhaps I should give that some thought, lol.

    Truth is, I commend her for her reaction to having her chain yanked, lol.

    You, on the other hand, are constantly ugly towards people, and one thing I have found is that you like to dish it out, but you don't like the leftovers.


    God bless.
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    That's me.

    A snotty punk...

    But, at least I don't make the Scriptures my personal guessing ground.

    At least I can present what I believe with the Scriptural presentation which shows why I believe it.

    By the way, those taken die. Those left enter the Kingdom.

    Both happen when the Lord returns.

    That didn't happen in the First Century.


    God bless.
     
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