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The Danger of Narci-gesis

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Steven Yeadon, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I am coming out and saying it: Many Christians I know for a long time read themselves in some way into the bible. I did it too for years. The danger is to see ourselves as like biblical characters, really as templates of biblical characters in some way.

    For instance, no we don't face our Goliath. That is reading ourselves as being a form of David. David was a historical man who lived centuries ago and became a king who loved God, while marrying a princess, ruling a nation, prosecuting wars, and having a harem.

    The idea we have our Goliath to defeat is a mischaracterization of the new covenant, in which we will be hated by the world, and looking at church history, a world that may demand our pleasures, possessions, and even life out of such hatred. All while forgiving our enemies and praying for and blessing those that do such things to us. I for one thought I was up against a series of foes like Goliath for years. This was unbiblical thinking, ultimately. I wasn't David, I was Steven and had to realize that the new covenant is not like the old.

    Charismatics are pros at narci-gesis. From things like having "the mantle of Cyrus" to being a "type of Daniel." Their false theology is partially rooted in the idea of being a "type" of a biblical character and receiving an "anointing" or "mantle" to prove this.

    Unfortunately, I have found plenty of narci-gesis distorting the Gospel in Orlando.

    It comes in many forms narci-gesis but simply saying no I am not Adam or Eve or a prophet or Joseph or Abraham or David or Joshua or Moses or Jesus or Peter or Paul or John or any biblical character. Instead I am lowly me obeying Jesus in a new covenant with total loyalty to the Word in flesh and Word of the scriptures. The one thing that does make sense is that, yes, I can make the same mistakes as biblical characters by embracing the same kinds of sins. Hating my brother for instance or loving the material world over God. However, even in this the propensity to be puffed up and self-important must be warred with.

    Probably the biggest narci-gesis I have found in Baptist circles is taught Henry Blackaby in his book "Experiencing God." Once you take away the idea that you are Moses or like Moses in terms of your life, that book quickly loses its relevance and for me, and many friends, became a kind of mysticism in line more with Charismatic influence or Roman Catholicism.
     
  2. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    The analogy is not the problem or Hebrews 11 is out of line. Paul told Christians to follow him as he followed Christ (see 1 Cor 11:1). He did not mean everyone would be an apostle like him, or write Scripture. While there can be an imbalance in teaching, the point of noting how key Bible believers faced their trials is that, if they could face theirs, then surely I can face mine. They serve as prime examples. They would not be nearly as motivating had I to face much greater trials than theirs. Most of us have our lesser "Goliath" to fight, our lesser "Isaac" to offer, our lesser "cross" to bear, etc. We are all called to live our own lives for Christ, not live everyone else's. Is that narcissistic? Just the opposite.
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Charismatics may and often do have something when they speak of, "receiving an "anointing" or "mantle" to prove this".

    Of course, 'Alan' can do nothing, but the idea is The Spirit of God within Taking Up a like Challenge, as has been Dealt with, before, in History by the examples RighteousnessTemperance points out from Hebrews 11.

    There are a lot of con artist Tomfoolery in Charismatic circles that I researched and examined first hand, for hundreds of hours.

    However, they 'get it' with 'Positive Actions (you both mentioned) and Giving, for example, REAP POSITIVE RESULTS.

    Sowing and Reaping that Baptists Champian often in the Negative usage is just as true.

    So, send me $1,000 and you will win the lottery.

    No, that is the junk part.

    "Give and it shall be given unto you" is Good Stuff.

    You all have mentioned Christianity in Action, by having The Holy Spirit Enable us to "Pray for our enemies".

    That is Christianity.

    Although they are heretical in their unsubstantiated (nor -'able') claim of possessing Miraculous Gifts, they PRAY.

    THEY GIVE.

    THEY "WORK THE WORD", by speaking it out and allowing God to Hear it and Be Pleased, but also their deceitful heart!!

    THEY "BELIEVE" for God to do things and know A LOT about "FAITH".

    Heck, Oral Roberts was used by God to Minister to me something like, …

    19 "And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence:

    20 If our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things.

    21 Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God,…"

    So, how about anyone that I have done wrong or the bill to the Chiropracter that is 3 years old and other bills and things?

    That was an application. Does my own heart condemn me for my fleshly sins?

    Yes. Should I make them right? Yes. Can those sins stop my Blessings and Prosperity ( as many Old Testament saints enjoyed) and Close Fellowship and 'Recieving' from God? Of course.

    What made me EXTREMELY CURIOUS about Charismatics was, "here is our family".

    Where's the 'black sheep'? Where's the degenerate? Where are the whores and druggies and unwed mothers and sexual deviates???

    They can be there, as with anywhere in the Human Experience, but really there were TOO MANY SUPER STRONG, FULLY INTACT, FAMILY UNITES 'PROSPERING' and 'serving' God in the way they understand.

    That was just not the norm with 'Baptists' who more so may have beat down legal whipped scaredy cats, or something, AT BEST. And the others? Where are they?

    There is Power in The Blood and they 'Claim it'.

    The is Resurrection Power and 'Anointing' Galore

    ...that many Christians can't dream of.

    "Do you know My Might?"

    Jeremiah 32:26 "Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah:

    27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too difficult for Me?

    28 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: Behold, I am about to deliver".

    ...

    THE KEY that I have found is this:

    "What is it that THE SPIRIT of GOD and THE WORD of GOD
    ..CAN...NOT...DO...?"

    ( not sin, of course, etc.)

    There is your POWER and CHRISTIANITY.

    27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too difficult for Me?"

    Thus, should we 'believe for it', 'have Faith?', pray', SPEAK THE WORD?

    Claim the Blood and Power of The Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus?

    I saw my wife do that to my stepson that had had a stroke and barely lived and was in a wheelchair.

    She spoke and claimed and believed GOD right in front of both of us that he would be able to walk.

    He's walking now.

    I had had a 'vision'/ dream about him walking past me and told everyone about it.

    But, I'm not about to 'depend' on anyone's dreams, or mine either. It was a God Thing, however.

    Boom. There he was. ( he looked like an Aids patient, in their last hours at first).

    GOD Blessed Him. And for His mother TO BELIEVE GOD, is O.K.

    "Do you know My Might?"

    ( did 'she' have 'power'? Nah, of course, no.)

    ...
    I am not against one word either of you said.

    And I don't mean to take an adverse position here to you Steven.

    I get what you are saying about the various 'approaches'
    to reading and understanding The Bible that suck.

    Think of the, "what do you have for me, today, Lord" idea, of so much self-centeredness that God did not intend His Word to be used this way?

    Or the Sunday School Lesson garbage.

    ... The Bible is not just to go and teach psychological and emotional techniques to anyone's flesh, Saved or not.

    Or the accused, "what does this passage MEAN TO ME?", the 'way I want to figure it says', not matter how Eternally Fatal, and on and on.

    Brian Borgman spends hundreds of hours it seems, on Interpreting The Bible, Hermeneutics, Bibliology, etc.

    Very good use of your time, according to me.

    THANK YOU, FOR YOU POST, STEVEN. RIGHT ON.

    KEEP PRAYING FOR YOUR ENEMIES!

    THAT'S JESUS. YOU'VE BEEN WITH JESUS!

    Brian's Bible Study.

    Hermeneutics.

    Bibliology.

    I am, personally, not a 'reformed' anything, as he and many are, but I certainly BENEFIT from the wealth of knowledge of other folks' ministries.

    I learned from the Charismatics, but oooo, ahhhhh, no, no, no, I can't go with, "Hey, I just healed your gall bladder".

    Sounds nice, but, ahhhhhh.

    Go to The Children's Hospital, dude. STEP UP.

    Right? oooooo.
     
    #3 Alan Gross, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  4. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Thank you. Although brother I must say that maybe the theses you have can lead with the reinforcements, caveats, and tangents thereafter. I'm a writer and am just mentioning this.
     
  5. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I think you are agreeing with me except that I missed the fact we can learn from past saints as in Hebrews 11. I agree, I missed that, thank you for correction. I must learn from Hebrews where to draw the line it seems.

    I think you would agree with the following then? The context of the book Experiencing God and the constant refrain in many camps to face down your "goliath" to gain in this world is more problematic. Mixing the Gospel with worldly success is unbiblical in the new covenant, but that is what much OT preaching I have heard amounts to. I am also not on a journey very much like Moses as in Experiencing God. I am instead like the saints in the apostolic churches of the New Testament. A sheep in a pen surrounded by wolves.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "Have we misread our Bibles" is a subject Brian Borgman handles in this audio. Very similar subject matter to your post. Bibliology: Content of Special

    As a writer, do you have access to the premium version of Grammarly or other software that shows another version of what you may have been trying to write?, where it says something?
     
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  7. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I have the latest edition of Word, but not grammarly. I have found Word to be enough assuming you turn on grammar check.
     
  8. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    The takeaway is that any teaching out of balance can lead to error, or already may be error. It’s one thing to emphasize an aspect for a purpose, but quite another to do so to create imbalance or even exclusion.

    We need a partial list here to offend everyone (both by what’s included, and how, and by what’s not): Jesus as God and Jesus as man, heaven and hell, faith and works, election and choice, etc.; and then there’s eating meat sacrificed to idols and abstaining (ditto for drinking wine), etc.

    As for this particular topic, generally, whether as an individual or a group, God in you or working through you doesn’t make you God or almost God. Perhaps we could say, Go learn what this means: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”
     
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  9. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Ok, I need to dig deeper. A key problem is taking individual old testament stories and inserting ourselves, we can definitely relate to certain circumstances but that does not mean our story is the same. New covenant believers have a separate context for our lives that is unique. Hebrews 12:1-3 relates Hebrews 11 to the believers in Christ being addressed. The challenge of Hebrews 11 is not to defeat our goliaths but to have faith.

    I get it, there is something deeper going on here than simply "relating to bible characters is wrong." Many preachers will relate everyone to David and Goliath, but that misses the point of our unique circumstances, especially in tyhe New Covenant. It seems the reason why some preachers doing so in error do this. That seems to be the real crux, which is to give people "uplifting" "self-help" therapy to seize our this worldly destiny. Or worse, to make us all into little David's to feed our ego and sense of safety.
     
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