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The date of the crucifixion.

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by 37818, Oct 14, 2018.

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  1. April 7, 30 AD

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  2. April 3, 33 AD

    50.0%
  3. April 5, 30 AD

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  4. April 6, 30 AD

    25.0%
  5. Other, please explain.

    25.0%
  1. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    To comply with the prophecies in Exodus 12, Christ had to be selected as the Paschal Lamb on 10th Nisan. I suggest this was the first day of the week (6pm our Saturday to 6pm our Sunday).

    On 14th Nisan the Paschal Lamb was killed and eaten. Christ complied with this by eating the Last Supper with His disciples at the close of 14th Nisan and beginning of the First Day of the Feast of the Passover (15th Nisan) i.e. about 6pm to 8pm our Thursday.

    Christ was arrested, interrogated, charged, found guilty by the Jewish leaders and mob, crucified, bore the wrath of His Father in Heaven, died and was buried, all on the remainder of 15th Nisan
     
  2. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    When Christ entered Jerusalem at the beginning of the week before Passover, he did so on 10th Nisan, thus fulfilling Exodus 12, the 'spotless lamb, without defect' was selected. This would appear to have been on the first day of the week, i.e. 'our' Saturday 6pm to Sunday 6pm approx.

    There is much reason to think that He spent the Sabbath (9th Nisan) in Bethany.

    At the end of 14th Nisan (our Wednesday 6pm to Thursday 6pm), Christ ate the Passover Meal/'Last Supper' with His Apostles, the perfect Passover lamb having been killed earlier that day. The meal probably lasted from say, our 6pm to 8pm i.e. the beginning of 15th Nisan, the First Day of the Feast/estival of the Passover, which was also an 'High Day' or 'Special Sabbath'.

    During the remainder of 15th Nisan, Christ was arrested, detained, interrogated, charged, tried, abused and found guilty by the Jewish mob, led by the Pharisees, Scribes and Lawyers, crucified, suffered three hours of His Father's righteous anger against sin, died and thereby redeemed believers, and was buried in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.

    The following day, 16th Nisan, a Saturday, He was in the tomb.

    On the first day of the week, 17th Nisan (our Sunday), His Father raised him from the dead
     
  3. kathleenmariekg

    kathleenmariekg Active Member

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    I did not know until recently that not all chronologists believe that Christ's ministry was 3.5 years and that some think it might have been longer or shorter.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is an interpretation.
    Jesus was at a meal 6 days before Mark 14:12, 14th of Nisan, John 12:1. Jesus entering Jerusalem that next day, John 12:12, which would be that Friday the 9th of Nisan. 6 days before the 14th is the 8th. That meal was not made on a Sabbath.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That interpretatinn does not agree with Mark 14:12 being the 14th of Nisan.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 14:12, ". . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? . . "
    Exodus 12:18, ". . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until . . . ."
     
  7. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    I offer this further interpretation:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Why the ‘Date’ of Palm Sunday Is so Profound
    Karen Engle | Mon, April 15, 2019 | Articles

    I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.

    Isaiah 46:10, NIV

    The significance of Palm Sunday was lost on me as a child. I suspect it’s lost on most Christian adults, too.

    My first memories of Palm Sunday were of sitting patiently in Sunday school next to my friends, holding palm fronds. When signaled, we waved them high while singing “Hosanna! Hosanna in the highest!” to a slightly off-key piano.

    I understood enough about Palm Sunday as a child to know it was the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and was hailed King of the Jews.

    But it wasn’t until a few years ago I began to comprehend the significance of what happened on that date and why it’s so profound for followers of Jesus. (Notice I wrote “date,” not “day.”)

    Let’s start in the book of John, the week before Jesus was crucified.

    Six days before Passover
    Six days before the Passover, Jesus therefore came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. So they gave a dinner for him there. Martha served, and Lazarus was one of those reclining with him at table. . . . When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. . . . The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. (John 12:1–2, 9, 12)

    John 12:1–2 says that six days before Passover Jesus went to Bethany, a small village a few miles outside of Jerusalem just beyond the Mount of Olives. There he shared a meal with Mary, Martha, and Lazarus.

    Word had spread that Jesus had recently raised Lazarus from the dead, and curious crowds had begun to gather (9, 12).

    But it’s the first three words of verse 12 that I want to focus on: “The next day.”

    The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. (emphasis added)

    What is so important about these three words?

    To better understand their significance, journey back with me 3,500 years to the time of the Exodus.

    A lamb, without blemish
    At the tail end of Israel’s 400 years of slavery in Egypt, God gave the nation some specific instructions:

    Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb for his family, one for each household. . . . Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old. . . . Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. (Exod 12:3 and 6, emphasis added)

    On “the tenth day of this month” (Nisan 10, the first month of the Israelite calendar),1 each family was to choose a one-year-old lamb “without blemish” (no defect),2bring it into their home, and care for it for five days. On Nisan 14,3 they were to slaughter it just before sundown and put its blood on the lintel and doorposts of their home (Exod 12:21–23; see also Lev 23:5; Num 9:2–5, 28:16; Josh 5:10–11).

    It was an act of obedience and trust.

    That same night, the Lord would “pass over” every home he saw with the lamb’s blood:

    On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. (Exod 12:12; see also Exod 12:42)

    Because a new Hebrew day begins at twilight,4 “that same night” would have been Nisan 15.5 It was on this date Israel left Egypt and passed through the Red Sea—the date God redeemed the Israelites out of slavery.

    Passover has been Judaism’s transformative event ever since. It’s celebrated every year on Nisan 15—falling in March or April on our Gregorian calendars.

    Now, let’s circle back to the scene in John 12 and connect some dots.

    cont...

     
  8. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    cont...

    Gentle and riding and on a donkey

    Six days before Passover puts Jesus in Bethany on Nisan 9 (Nisan 15 minus 6 days).6

    “The next day” would have been Nisan 10—the same “date” the Israelites were to bring “lambs without blemish” into their homes.

    Almost 1,500 years after the first Passover in Egypt, Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey, on Nisan 10.

    The crowds who were in Jerusalem to celebrate Passover met him with palm branches shouting: “Hosanna! (Save now!) Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!” (John 12:13; from Psalm 118:19–27).

    Matthew 21:8 adds more information:

    Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. (See also Mark 11:7–8)

    This act was reserved for kings and conquerors (2 Kings 9:13).7

    The people missed the full significance of the circumstances. Two things were happening, but they only saw one: Jesus fulfilling Zechariah’s prophecy:

    Your king comes to you, gentle and riding on a donkey. (5; see also verse 4)

    It was a prophecy the Jews knew well. When Jesus passed through Jerusalem’s gates, they were openly proclaiming him as their Savior and King (though in the sense of relieving Israel from Roman oppression).

    What they didn’t see was God’s selection of Jesus Christ as the final Passover lamb to be slaughtered.

    The stage was set for the events of the final week of his life, leading to his suffering, crucifixion, death, and resurrection. Just a few days later on Nisan 14, as upwards of 250,000 lambs8 were being sacrificed in the temple courts according to God’s instruction in Exodus 12, Jesus would be nailed to a cross.9

    So what does Palm Sunday celebrate?
    We remember and celebrate Palm Sunday as both the triumphal entry and the day “Christ our Passover” was set apart as “a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Pet 1:19 NIV) to be sacrificed for our sins (1 Cor 5:7; see also Luke 23:4–22).

    It’s why John the Baptist declared just before baptizing Jesus:

    Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29)

    The book of Hebrews says the Old Testament sacrificial system is only a shadow of the good things to come—not the realities themselves (Heb 10:1, see also Col 2:16–17). Exodus 12:3 was the shadow, the picture of what would happen centuries later when Jesus of Nazareth entered Jerusalem.10

    Just as Isaiah declared, God made known the end from the beginning (46:10).

    And we get to marvel at the perfection of God’s timing—and his Word—through three short words in John:

    The next day.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Imposing a common never really true interpretation on the NT bistory does not make it true. John 12:1-2, ". . . they made him a supper; . . ." An this was not on a Sabbath. So the next day, John 12:12, would not be our Sunday.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In Jesus' day the passover lamb was offered before jesus and His disciples ate it, Mark 14:12-17, ". . . And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. . . ."
     
  11. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    It is true that Christ is said to arrive at Bethany 'six days before the Passover' in John 12 v 1, and then in John 2 v 12 there is a reference to Christ travelling to Jerusalem 'the next day' when "much people that were come to the feast...took branches of palm trees...", which I suggest was 10th Nisan, in fulfilment of Exodus 12 v 3, "the perfect lamb, without blemish".

    Many commentators, however, agree that John 12 v 2-11 is really a parenthesis, and should rightly be harmomised with the accounts in Matthew 26 vv 1-16, Mark 14 vv 11 and also Luke 22 vv 1-6. On this analysis, the 'supper' with Mary, Martha, Lazarus and the disciples being present, took place probably during the fourth day of the week (13th Nisan, our Wednesday). This appears to be the day when Judas Iscariot conferred with the Pharisees about betraying Christ, with which John 12 vv 4 to 11 seems to agree.

    The term "six days before the Passover" (John 12 v 1) could mean six days before Passover or six days before the Feast/Festival of the Passover, in which case, according to the interpretation I have offered, Christ arrived in Bethany either on 8th Nisan (our Friday) or the 9th Nisan, a Sabbath, our Sunday.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In 33AD is a Sabbath day. In 30AD was a Thursday.
     
  13. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    I look at how the Passion Week fulfilled Exodus 12 and other Scriptures.

    The perfect lamb was selected on 10th Nisan: Christ's entry to Jerusalem
    The perfect lamb was killed and eaten at the end of 14th Nisan: The Last Supper
    Christ was crucified and buried on 15th Nisan: The first day of the 7-day Festival
    The following day was 16th Nisan and as the Gospel writers agree, this was the weekly Sabbath
    The following day, the 'first day of the week', was the 17th Nisan, a date which harmonises with the Festival of the First Fruits and with other new beginnings in Scripture on the 17th of the months.

    On that chronology, which fulfils Exodus and Leviticus, 9th Nisan must also be a Sabbath.

    There is no perfect agreement on harmonising Hebrew Chronology with Gregorian Chronology, so for example:

    http://www.bsswebsite.me.uk/Daysanddates/hebrew-date.html#:~:text=The Gregorian date (Anno Domini,time, is -3761 BCE

    gives 3 April 33AD as 16 Nisan, while

    Hebrew Calendar

    gives 3 April 33AD as 14 Nisan.

    But both give 15 Nisan 33AD as a Sabbath. which would mean that Christ died on the weekly Sabbath, which is contrary to the Scriptures
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So 33AD does not work.
    In 30AD the 15th of Nisan falls on our Thursday.
     
  15. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    The child Jesus was possibly approaching age 2, when Herod issued his decree to murder the children up to that age. Herod died in 4 BC. That puts the birth of Jesus around 6 at-least, or even before. If he lived 33 years, the crucifixion would be -6 (at least, maybe more) plus 33 minus 1 (no year zero). 26 AD, maybe?

    Consider also that Passover and the crucifixion was sundown on Thursday. A Wednesday supper in the upper room was the preparation meal, not the passover (note that they got up and left, something you don't do on Passover as per The Law of Moses). See Eidersheim on Passover prep in those days, there was a formal preparation meal. And we know that Jesus kept the Law, so he would not leave the room on Passover. Also, Thursday allows a literal 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb without pretzel logic. So look for Passover dates that land on Thursday to find out what years might qualify as the year of death, burial and resurrection.

    Though Jesus mentions partaking the Passover with the disciples, one may ponder what he meant by it if that was actually the next day, not that same night, like most of us are led to believe.

    Remember also, the day after Passover is the first day of Unleavened Bread, which is a high Sabbath, no matter what day of the week it lands on (that year, Friday). So there were 2 sabbaths in a row, Friday High Sabbath for Unleavened Bread and the normal weekly sabbath (Saturday). This is why the women could not anoint the body of Jesus with spices until Sunday.

    Think about what it might mean if the Church Age began earlier than we are accustomed to believing. If you're a 7-day history person where 1-day=1000-years, the 2k years (2 days of the 7) is approaching sooner than current tradition places it.

    Some things to think about if nothing else.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The 14th of Nisan, Mark 14:12-16 was before that following evening, Mark 14:17, "And in the evening he cometh with the twelve."
     
  17. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    They needed to get the body of Jesus off the cross before nightfall because that would be the beginning of the Sabbath. If the last supper were Passover, then the next day would have been the first day of Unleavened Bread, a High Sabbath. So it would have already been a Sabbath. All the trials and crucifixion would have been carried out on a Sabbath which was forbidden.

    This is how we know that the last supper was not Passover.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In what year? The Preperation day begins with its evening, Mark 15:42, "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath."
    Again, Mark 14:12-16 was the 14th of Nisan, and Mark 14:17 was that following evening. Jesus was crucfied after this on that day. The Jewish days begin with their evenings.
     
  19. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    As it says, evening had already come (the evening before Passover/Unleavened Bread evening) where preparation proceeds. That's the day before the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 14:12-16 is before Mark 14:17.

    Mark 14:12, "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?"
     
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