The Difference between the Rapture and Second Coming

Nice video, however your message is wrong. We will be caught up with the Lord (Rapture) when Jesus comes back. There is no secret Rapture. You've been taught something that isn't gonna happen.

Grace56

 

Grace is not a dispy.

 

I do not think the scripture teaches of a Rapture of any kind. The famous text from 1 Thess is a complicated metaphor with allusions to a number of other scriptural accounts such as Moses coming down the mountain with the Law as well as some stuff from Daniel.

God is not to rescue us from the world, he is going to resurrect us for the world.

If time permits, I will later give an argument as to why there will be event where Christians are caught up and delivered to heaven.

 

I would suggest some talking, video, et. The reading can be tedious. Nice music though. And bad theology... :laugh:

hahaha..God bless brother, you will find some of us do not hold a dispensational interpretation of Scripture.

 

How young a believer are you? You were asking questions here back in "05 and '06 as a new believer, weren't you? Or am I wrong?

I'll say what I said then -- you need to be doing Bible study and find a good Bible study and church instead of watching youtube.

 

Ouch...............

 

Well I've found that many of those on this board that preach grace grace grace, often demonstrate very little.

 

Hello, TaliOrlando: I apologize! I misread your first post thinking you were asking about a video. Now I see that you did one! Also, I may have confused with somene else who posted here a lot. He started a lot of threads asking questions but would say he did not have time to study the Bible.

So I am very sorry for jumping the gun! I'll watch the video. :wavey:

 

Tali ---

Interesting video. Here are some comments: I would find a good background and font color and then stay with that throughout. The constant changes is rather bothersome. And you may want to work with contrasts. For example, stay away from pink and light blue. Also, I would try some editing -- it gets very wordy -- use phrasing, not sentences. Lastly, if you are going to quote Scripture, you should use " marks and note the translation (NIV, KJV, etc.) or put this at the end (e.g., all Scripture quoted is from the KJV). Hope this is helpful.

FOS -- a fellow Floridian

 

I just watched the video you did. I think it was good and I posted a comment.

I like the way you cite scripture passages to support what you are saying. I lean toward this view myself, and I think especially for someone who has only been a believer for 5 years, you did a really good job!

I had a little trouble reading everything before it switched over and had to go back but I'm a slow reader.

Sorry again for my ungracious words and please accept my apology. :wavey:

I see your YouTube name has the year 1981 after it. Is that when you were born? I'm wondering because that is when my son was born.

 

Amen, Brother TaliOrlando - Preach it! Very Good video!! :thumbs:

Item (4) IMHO, the rapture will not be secret or hidden from the world. The voice of the archangel, the sound of Trumpets, the opening of the graves, the folks flying through the air -- it will make so much noise it will literally wake the dead! I even tell my deaf friends that the first thing they will hear is the Lord Coming!!!

Amen, Brother TaliOrlando - Tell it like it's going to be!! :thumbs:

 

I have a book called "Rose Book of Bible charts, maps and timelines" (super cool book!), and in the end times section there is a chart which details the basic end times beliefs.
According to this chart, there are two premillennial beliefs, historic premillennialism and dispensational premillennialism.
It says that historic premil was the belief taught by the early church fathers, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Papias.....

Dispensational premil emerged in the 1800's among Plymough Brethren.

I have a tendancy to believe the historic premil. I think this may be called post trib? I have thought this for some time, but just got this book a few days ago and saw that it was believed in the early church, so I was not influenced by the book.

So, if historic premil was believed by the ones closest to the apostles, why the change in belief later on?

 

Hi, Amy -- My view is that whether the early church fathers believed or write about it or not, I do see support in scripture for it and that's what I go by. I am not totally sold on this position, but my pastor is, my mission board, and others I know. Of course, I have a lot of friends who are amil as well.

It's an issue to study and takes time. I have not had eschatology at seminary yet but I imagine when I do, I'll learn more about this.

Btw, I see that you mention a Rose publication. I wrote a brochure for them call 10 Q & A on Magic, Spells, and Divination (they asked me to write this). Here is a link for it:
http://www.rose-publishing.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=999

They also did a power point on it.

I also contributed to another brochure on Cults and the Occult (I did astrology, the Church of Satan, Kabbalah, occult terms, and scriptural warnings:
http://www.rose-publishing.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=731

They have a power point on that, too.

 

That's fantastic Marcia. Thanks for all your work in revealing these false teachings. :thumbsup:

Eschatology is one of the most difficult things in scripture to me. It's amazing to me how many different views there are, all given by truly Godly people.
:laugh:

 

I do not think that Paul ever intended his readers to conclude that God will take believers away from the earth - in other words, despite the widespread belief in this idea, I claim that it was never, in fact, held by Paul. And this despite what he says in this famous passage:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

I suggest that Paul never intended for his readers to take this as a literal description of what will happen - the above is simply a different way of describing what is said in 1 cor 15:23-27 and 51-54 and Philippians 3:20-21:

Here is the material from 1 Cor

But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet."[c] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[

In the 23-27 block, Paul speaks about time of the resurrection of the dead. Then, in the 51 - 54 block, He tells us what will happen to those who are not dead at the time of His coming - they will be transformed.

This is clearly the same event as in the 1 Thess 4 passage - we have the trumpet in both, we have the resurrection in both. But whereas in the Thess text, he speaks of those presently alive being "snatched up in the air", in the Corinthians text he sees them as being transformed.

This should already be a hint that things are not as they appear to be. But we still have a lot of work to do to see why we should not take the "snatched up in the air" idea literally.

Now let's look at the Phil. text, where the context is quite clearly the setting of Jesus against Ceasar. Paul talks about the transformation of the present body to be like that of Jesus.

20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

So why does Paul, in 1 Thess, talk about "snatching the saints away". I think that Paul is metaphorically alluding to three other stories - the story of Moses coming down the mountain, the story of Daniel 7, where the persecuted people of God are vindicated over their pagan enemy by being raised up on the clouds to sit with God in glory, and finally the practice of that time of going out to meet the emperor at some distance from the city.

I suggest that when we look at these stories, it will become apparent that Paul never intended his readers to take the "snatching up in the air" reference literally.

I will continue is subsequent posts.

By the way, the ideas and arguments I am presenting here originate not with me, but with NT Wright.