Featured The Doctrine of Justification

Anyone who doesn't know that salvation is through faith doesn't need to be involved in the conversation in the first place. Of course that is the process. I wasn't describing a "process," I was talking solely about how we are justified. Look at the thread title: That's the discussion taking place.

 

I grow tired of the constant flow of nonsense hoisted on this forum. Now some would claim that you can have justification apart from salvation or salvation apart from justification, but they are inseparable.

I presented the Doctrine of Justification through faith based on scripture. Your "Faithomatic" view is unbiblical because it leaves out that justification occurs after God credits our faith as righteousness and places us spiritually in Christ, where we undergo the circumcision of Christ.

 

Ephesians 2:8- 9 it's is by (God's) grace we are saved, through (our) faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God. Not a result of works so that no man may boast.

 

I agree, we are not saved by Faithomatic transmission, but by the grace of God who credits our faith, or not, and if He does, He places us in Christ.

 

You have stated this umpteen hundred times on BB. Please share the scripture you would use to back up these statements. I'm looking for the phrases, "credits our faith as righteousness", "places us spiritually in Christ" and especially "the circumcision of Christ".

 

This is a debate forum, sir. He is debating you.

 

I started to reply to the OP, but you said it first and better. Thank you.

 

No you were not crass. He apparently thinks those who do not see things his way are hell-bound. He needed to be corrected.

 

Thanks for your questions. I have not explained this view in detail because I have presented it "Umpteen" times.

1) Credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5, 24. Translations vary, some say "reckons".

2) Place us spiritually in Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Paul also describes the action of being transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, Colossians 1:13. Another place is where Paul says we are baptized into Christ by the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13.

3) Circumcision of Christ,Colossians 2:9-12.

The Biblical view is when God credits our faith as righteousness, He places us spiritually in Christ. For we are chosen (set apart) through the sanctification by the Spirit (who baptizes us spiritually into Christ) and through faith in the truth (as determined by God crediting our faith as righteousness.) 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

I know you will not find this view in any textbook, but it can be found in book after book of the New Testament.

 

Once you start looking for this step by step soterology, you can find it all over the place, or so I believe.

Lets consider John 1:12-13. "But as many as received Him" refers to hearing the gospel and putting our wholehearted faith in Christ. "to them He gave the right" refers to being born anew which gives us the right to be resurrected at Christ's second coming as a child of God. "to become the children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

Then these folks, with this right "who were born, not of blood nor the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of God."

From this passage we get (1) our faith, (2) God acting upon that faith, causing them to be born anew when He places them in Christ, and (3) giving them the right (as spiritually children of God) to become children of God physically at Christ's second coming.

Faithomatic transmission is no where to be found.

 

You just might have some traction, IF you actually viewed the passage of John 1 correctly.

However, John 1 does not teach items such as "our faith" or "putting our wholehearted faith in Christ."

Rather, it is contrasting the reaction of those who do not comprehend, shun light, and who actually turn from the light, in comparison to those who do not turn away from light.

The word "receive" can be used as one who takes, and grabs, but it is never a word of force or violence.

Rather, "receive," as portrayed in John 1, is that of embracing, of openly acquiring by being given (such as one knighted), of experiencing (such as one catching a cold or flu), to take in (as a sponge absorbs water), to admit (as one greeting others at the door) ...

It is not used as something taken from what is offered - such as food on a tray - in John 1.

The context says that the light enlightens all men, but most turn away from the light, shun the light, ignore and do not even comprehend the light.

The context states that those that are enlightened and do not turn away are then given the power...

I realize that often folks put "receive" (as it is sometimes used elsewhere) in other Greek definitions, but the context does not allow for any humanistic ability in either stepping into the light, as control over when the light is given, nor in any response other than turning away from the light (that is extremely important).

Those who do not turn away from the light (note the person does not turn toward the light) are then given "the power..."

Because of this small difference, it throws off the rest of your post.

There is no positive human faith force at work in John 1 leading to salvation.

 

It seems to me that if one is a true believer he is justified whether he understands justification or not. Or whether he thinks he has to work for justification or not. God is the One who justifies!

 

The woman's eternal fate does not depend on her understanding. It is God who justifies. If the woman is a true believer she is truly justified!

 

:jesus: :godisgood:

 

Lol

1) First the obligatory insult, as if you had any idea how to understand scripture. All your ideas are copy and paste from Calvinism's storehouse of fiction.

2) John 1:1-14 presents a clear and simply message which Calvinism denies.

3) In Him (when we are spiritually in Him by the action of God) is life.

4) Light overpowers darkness, for when you turn on a light, the darkness vanishes.

5) When the Light (Christ Jesus, the Son of God) comes into the world (enters any individual as the Spirit of Christ) He enlightens the person. The Light is the life (eternal life).

6) Some of His own (Jews) did not receive Him, but others did.

7) Lets consider John 1:12-13. "But as many as received Him" refers to hearing the gospel and putting our wholehearted faith in Christ. "to them He gave the right" refers to being born anew which gives us the right to be resurrected at Christ's second coming as a child of God. "to become the children of God, even to those who believe in His name."

Then these folks, with this right "who were born, not of blood nor the will of the flesh nor the will of man but of God."

From this passage we get (1) our faith, (2) God acting upon that faith, causing them to be born anew when He places them in Christ, and (3) giving them the right (as spiritual children of God) to become children of God physically at Christ's second coming.

 

Like I said, your rendition is incorrect or you might have some traction.

I never stated otherwise. I never consulted Calvin to see what he might consider of the passage (John 1), and your claims of what Calvin does or doesn't support really has no bearing on the truth of my post.

I rely upon Scriptures.

As such I demonstrated that YOU added to the Scriptures obliged by your view. That is what is called into question.

No problem - but such a statement wasn't contended.

No, darkness does not "vanish." Rather, it lurks, hiding away in what humankind call shadows, crevices in which the darkness temporarily flees.

John 3 states that the folks turn from the light, because they do not want their evil to be exposed. The folks shun the light, and purposely dwell in darkness.

Because you miss apply both light and darkness, you draw wrong conclusions.

This is not what John 1 teaches.

John 1 clearly states that light is given to all.

John 3 states “This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.


Your inaccurate reading and adding statements cause you to drive to the wrong conclusions.

John 1 does not show folks having to make any action to receive the light, but (as consistent with John 6) folks actually turn away from the light rather than receiving the light.

There is absolutely no action taken to receive the light. That YOU put some action into the dialogue is because your view obliges what the Scriptures do not.

The action (what God does) is the result of not turning from the light in John 1. It is what God does for those who remain (receive) in the light.

In John 3, the action is of those that turn from the light and what the motivation for turning from the light.

Not in contention.

Again, you desire to add conditions of human effort to the Scriptures: "refers to hearing the gospel and putting our wholehearted faith in Christ."

That is NOT at all what John teaches in John 1 nor the supporting statements of light verses darkness in John 6.

That you desire it, and are willing to manipulate the Scriptures to your view, is as I stated, above, is incorrect and lacking traction.

 

As usual, more absurdity from Agedman.

1) Does any Calvinist rely on scripture? Nope. They rewrite scripture to fit with the doctrine of compulsion.

2) When you turn on a light, the darkness remains? Not what scripture says. Everyone who believes in the Light will not remain in darkness.

3) Those who have been transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Son are "in Him" and "in Him" there is no darkness.

 

#1 especially has to be ex cathedra as if you are the only one who does rely on Scripture.

It stinks in here.

 

Hi Greektim, your post stinks.

I have shown scripture after scripture that all 5 point Calvinists nullify and rewrite by changing the meaning of words.

1) John 3:16 says God so loved the world, which refers to fallen mankind, yet Calvinist say no, world means elect only.

2) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith in the truth, yet Calvinism says no, we are chosen unconditionally and then given faith via irresistible grace.

I could go on and on. The validity of my statement is based on the 5 points as published, and the plain reading of scripture after scripture.
I make no claims based on authority or infallibility, but rest my case on easily stated truths.

 

I hold to the DoG as regards sotierology, but would say that God declres me to be just, to have perfectly kept the law, due to Jesus death on the cross in my place, so He was/is my propiation and atoner!

Now freely justified by God due to Jesus death, and by receiving Him thru faith in him and his work on my behalf, NOW we strart to become daily condormed into image of jesus, that is a progressive nature, completed/finished when glorified by Him!

think basic difference is some see it as I do, as imputed to me the very rightopusness of jesus, that God sees me perfect as to the law, as Jesus did that in my place, but others see it as God infusing us with grace, so we will be changed and be saunctified,amd have to be saunctifed enough to merit salvation, like RCC see it!