The Doctrine of Original Sin

Y'all,

I think from what I have read so far, we all ought to take a deep breath, read my remarks, and count to 10. :laugh:

Original sin is simply that -- the sin Adam committed. It lead to all mankind PHYSICALLY dying, period. The "original sin" was NOT committed by you or me and has NO consequence on our spiritual death.

Sin nature is simply instinctive behavior "run amuck" into sin whereupon we die spiritually in our SOUL -- our "God relationship" of Father-to-child. Adam died instantly in his soul when he sinned. So we are "in Adam" when we choose to sin just as we will be "in Christ" when we choose Him!

There is one aspect of our existence that has not been changed so far -- our SPIRITS. Our spirits (mind, emotions, and wills) are the "battleground" between God and self (our souls) and Satan (our flesh). That is, the SPIRIT is a "free will" that exists between the 2 and that ponders all sides of every decision we make. And believe me, God HAS made His side/truth "manifest" to all men (Rom 1:19-20, John 1:9). One further emphasis -- for the spirit to be "dead" would mean that we could no longer think. We would, indeed, be as the Calvies see Lazarus in John 11:41 (BTW, Lazarus BELIEVED before he died and so would have been spiritually alive already!).

So again I say in yet a different way, Calvies believe all men are, of themselves, "mindless" and operating according to God's "preprogramming"/predestination which the most extreme among them call either "election" or "reprobation." They do not consider the triunity of man and, particularly, the distinction of the spirit and soul and so are "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" regarding "election"/salvation. It is really quite sad the "mental gymnastics" they go through to prove their faulty salvation scheme. :tear:

How can anyone come up with a sound position on salvation without knowing what needs to be saved and how? I mean, they range from "all babies go to hell" to "all babies go to heaven" --- and only the former (babies go to hell) can they support from their own theology!

skypair

 

This is incorrect and is the heresy of Pelagianism.

 

This simple man is going to ask you what is incorrect about it and what the heresy is. There is no doubt in my mind that Peragianism is heretical. I want you to explain why this tenet in that theology is incorrect and heretical if you can, please.

skypair

 

Get your mind out of the gutter, rip. There is a not inconsequential difference between saying a person is not saved and saying a theology's sotierology is "broke."

skypair

 

"Ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth". That is in reference to reprobates.That verse does not have any bearing on one's soteriology. But you are used to wrenching Scripture out of context for your own ends.

 

There is no such thing as a person "elect to reprobation" so this certainly is NOT an indictment of anyone individually. Like I said, stick with the issues.

sky

 

I agree. There is no such thing as "elect to reprobation."

And I guess you are trying to make a half-hearted apology. That's at least a baby-step for you in the right direction.

 

Parenthesis and bold, my notes.

Ephesians 2:3


3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

 

What does Ephesians 2:1 say you became the object of God's wrath?

1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,

 

The above bolded is when they become sinners. A sinner is one who commits sin, not the other way around.

 

YOUR view of faith is flawed. You have been shown repeatedly that this "saving faith" is NOT the gift outlined in Ephesians 2.

 

This is the perfect example that when one holds to systematic theology over the Bible, they become ensnared in man's theology.

 

The above is spot on...but because of OUR sin, not Adam's. Original sin denies this.

 

Do you believe in the Trinity? So do catholics...you must be a catholic.

See the fault in your argument that everyone who does NOT hold to Augustinian original sin is pelagian?

 

uh-huh - one might more accurately say that those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.

Back in a bit.

 

I am part of the catholic church - not the Roman Catholic Church.

Not really. Either you hold to the biblical doctrine of Original Sin or you are a heretic.

In the same vein, either you hold to the biblical doctrine of the Trinity or you are a heretic.

It is a fairly simple proposition. 1 or 0...there is no false dilemma - it is a true dilemma.

 

Seems like everyone who doesn't see things through your lens is a heretic.
You espouse your own "brand" of heresy in election = salvation. A sinner is not saved because they are elect, they are saved by grace through faith. Period.

 

no - Original Sin confirms that in Adam, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Which means body and soul, Man is separated from God from birth (except for those he quickens in the womb, like John the Baptist).