The Down-Grade

[Bob Farnaby]

I am about to begin a short study on the Down-Grade controversy, that partook in C.H. Surgeon's life. At this point I know nothing about it, I did find MacArthur's article on the subject http://www.spurgeon.org/downgrd.htm but I have not read it as of now. I was just wondering if anyone has studied it, and if there is anything I need to know before going into this study. I also wonder if the issues he dealt with are still controversial today, I guess that question should be more like, How relevant are the issues today?, that will determine how much time I invest into researching it. As I already stated at this point I know basically nothing, so forgive my ignorance.

Reformer

If you are still looking for material there is an excellent (in my opinion) article at http://www.reformation-today.org/rtindex.htm is called
<LI class=style1>Charles Spurgeon and the Downgrade It is written by Erroll Hulse, editor of the magazine "Reformation Today" a UK production.
Regards
Bob

 

[Bob Alkire]

If you are still looking for material there is an excellent (in my opinion) article at http://www.reformation-today.org/rtindex.htm is called
<LI class=style1>Charles Spurgeon and the Downgrade It is written by Erroll Hulse, editor of the magazine "Reformation Today" a UK production.
Regards
Bob

Bob, Good read, thanks.
Bob

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Jim1999

Thanks for the info.

Some of what you said was.........

“Dr. T.T. Shields was the leader in this stand against modernism and was expelled from that Baptist Convention, formed his own group called Regular Baptists and his own seminary”

Did you know, that the “Regular Baptist Press”, is one of the few places you can find Sunday School material in KJV, any more.

Now I know why.

 

[Jim1999]

The Regular Baptist in Canada are not to be confused with the American Regular Baptists. They are far different organizations.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Jerome]

...Regular Baptist Press is a ministry of the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (Schaumburg, IL), not Shields's group.

 

[EdSutton]

Hi Jim1999

Thanks for the info.

Some of what you said was.........

Did you know, that the “Regular Baptist Press”, is one of the few places you can find Sunday School material in KJV, any more.

Now I know why.

Just spotted this, while looking for something else, actually. And I notice the thread is an open one. (FTR, you might notice I did catch the ad hominem you implied with this last sentence.)

While I do not wish to weary anyone with the facts, the largest publisher of Sunday School literature in the world in the English language is the Sunday School Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, now known as LifeWay. The Scripture portions in some of the largest selling series of SS literature are from both the HCSB and KJV, and are printed "side-by-side". (The huge cost of the royalties of copyrighted versions for several million copies of SS literature served as a primary reason for the HCSB, in the first place.)

Another LifeWay series is KJV ONLY, and I believe there is also at least one that is HCSB ONLY. (I dunno' about this last one. Somehow it just doesn't seem to have quite the same 'ring,' as one I've kinda' gotten used to hearing.) :laugh:

In a similar fashion to some of the SS literature from David C. Cook (KJV/NIV); Accent (Cook) is KJV ONLY (Cook's characterization, not mine); Christian Ed. Publishers (KJV/NIV); Gospel Light (NIV/KJV); Standard (Adult NIV OR KJV, your choice); National Baptist Convention Sunday School Board (NRSV/KJV); the KJV Store puts out ONLY KJV materials, including SS curricula, and the International Sunday School Lessons series is also available in KJV, and these are just some of the ones I found rather quickly.

While it's true that LifeWay is a single publisher, I suggest the sheer size and volume of their material in KJV (or in HCSB, for that matter) would likely eclipse several combos of the others combined. LifeWay currently ships between 70 and 80 million pieces of literature annually. That's a few, IMO. Cook, while no slouch itself, by contrast, hits slightly over a tenth of that, for one example.

Ed

 

[OldRegular]

I am not trying to be confrontational, but other than the historical knowledge and the intellectual aspect, of what importance is this study?

Quoting Rippon:

The whole subject has relevance to matters of moment today. Happy reading about a sad state of affairs.

I wholeheartedly agree with Rippon, Reformed Baptist, and John of Japan.

 

[Jim1999]

60 years later, the down-grade movement had minimal effect on the British Baptist Union. We still had strong evangelicals within the Union and very few out and out liberals.

Even in Canada and the battle with the liberal convention, the majority of churches within that group are to-day evangelical.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Rippon]

60 years later, the down-grade movement had minimal effect on the British Baptist Union. We still had strong evangelicals within the Union and very few out and out liberals.

Even in Canada and the battle with the liberal convention, the majority of churches within that group are to-day evangelical.

Cheers,

Jim

This may be of interest to you Jim.I have a little book containing the letters of C.H.S.put out by The Banner Of Truth.What follows are excerpts.

[To the Ministers and Delegates forming the Baptist Convention of the Maritime Providences of Canada]

10/5/1888

Dear Brethren in Christ,

I heartily thank you all for the words of cheer which you have sent me.Such a resolution,from such brethren,at such a time,gladdened me greatly.From the depths of my soul I thank all the brethren,and I pray the Lord richly to recompense them.I am grateful that you have not misjudged my action in reference to the English Baptist Union,from which I have felt bound to separate myself.I have not acted from sudden impulse,much less from any personal grievance;but I have been long protesting quietly,and have been at last compelled to make a stand in public... Altogether apart from the soundness or unsoundness of individuals,the compact itself is on wrong grounds,and can never produce real unity.There are numbers of faithful,honoured,and beloved brethren in the Union;but these,by their presence and countenance,are bolstering up a confederacy which is upon a false foundation...Assuredly I am one with you,and all the more consciously so because you have not hesitated to stand by me in the hour of trouble,when many shun my company and condemn my conduct.
Gopd bless you,my beloved brethren,and keep you in His faith as at this day! May the Lord increase and strengthen you more and more,and bless all the 'Maritime Providences'through your works of faith and labours of love.You are not ashamed to state your beliefs.You do not wish to cover up error by a cloudy,indefinite state of things,which,like darkness,encourages evil.You love the truth,and therefore do not shun the light.May the Holy Ghost be with all your ministers,and dwell in all your members! Peace be to you and grace!