1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, May 22, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    There is not one verse in the entire Bible says their a 7-year Tribulation. Some try to claim Daniel 9:24-27 as teaching this, but unless one comes to this passage already having a predisposed bias, they will not find it there. This false idea is not scriptural and no biblical commentator, no theologian, no church in Christendom had ever taught such a doctrine. The doctrine basically did not exist before John Darby, and was promoted through the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible in the early 20th century. The idea or doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation is simply not mentioned in Daniel 9. Here is a great explanation by my buddy palehorse..'There are many theories out there in regards to the 70th Week of the Daniel 9 prophecy. The most prevalent one talks about a 7-year tribulation just prior to Christ's second coming. Many believers in the 7-year Tribulation don't know that this belief is rooted in the Daniel 9 prophecy. In fact, one of the most important verses used to support this idea is Dan 9:27, which we will look at along with the entire prophecy. Also, it is from Dan 9:27 that the belief in "The Antichrist" and the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple on the temple mount comes from.

    The series of events outlined in this theory is that 1) there will be a secret rapture that takes all true Christians away leaving others behind, 2) then a 7-year tribulation occurs where those who were not taken in the secret rapture will get a chance to "clean up their act" so that when Christ's public appearance happens they can be judged worthy, 3) during the course of the 7-year tribulation the Antichrist will appear, make a covenant with the Jewish nation, then break that covenant in the middle of the 7 years, then he’ll walk inside the Jewish temple and declare himself to be God. But is this theory biblically accurate? That is just what my essay explores.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    First, let’s read through the entire prophecy so that we get the whole idea first and then we’ll break it down.

    Daniel 9
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    One thing that must be understood first is the “a day for a year” rule established in Eze 4:6. For every day that is mentioned in this and all other biblical prophecies they are equal to a prophetic year. There is virtually no debate about this point in Christian circles and we’ll find that the rule holds true in this prophecy.

    The Timeframe:
    The angel Gabriel starts the prophecy by giving a block of time in verse 24, seventy weeks. Seventy weeks is equal to 490 days, or 490 prophetic years. That is our timeframe for this prophecy from beginning to end.

    Verse 25 tells us when this timeframe begins, “from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem”. When did this occur? See Ezra 7; for this is the command where the rebuilding of Jerusalem was actually accomplished and that command was given by Artaxerxes, king of Persia; which occurred in 457 BC. There were two other kings that made similar commands to rebuild Jerusalem but those proved to not be fruitful.


    This is the total 70-week block given by Gabriel in verses 25 & 27:
    Block 1: 7 Weeks - (49 years) - Starts in 457 BC

    Block 2: 62 Weeks - (434 years) - Starts in 408 BC

    Block 3: 1 week - (7 years) - Starts in 27 AD


    Let’s look closely at the last week/ 7-year block (Block 3); for this is the period of time that many think will be the famous “Seven-year Tribulation” of the future:

    3 ½ Years + 3 ½ Years = 7 years (one week)
    o This block starts in 27 AD. What happened in this year? Christ was baptized, anointed, and started His public ministry.
    o The "midst of the week" started in 31 AD (3 ½ years later). What happened in this year? Christ was killed on the cross. (New Covenant confirmed.)
    o This block ends in 34 AD. What happened in this year? Stephen, the last disciple to the Jews, was stoned by the Sanhedrin and the Gospel went out to the Gentiles.

    So we see that this breakdown perfectly follows the prophecy of Daniel 9 and we find that this prophecy was about the coming Messiah (Jesus Christ); history and later books of the Bible verify this.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Why do people want to put this last week of the 70 at the end times? There is no biblical reason to do so and it breaks the block of time Gabriel started the prophecy with. Let's ask some further important questions;
    Is the antichrist mentioned anywhere in Daniel 9:24-27? No. The "he" mentioned in verse 27 is Christ, not Antichrist, for Christ is the focus of the whole prophecy. Also, we find that only Christ makes convenants in the Bible. Is there any mention of a rebuilding of the Jewish temple? No. Any mention of sacrifices being restarted? No. Any mention of a covenant being broken? No. In fact verse 27 says the opposite, that the covenant would be confirmed. So why do people believe this ridiculous theory that there will be a 7-year tribulation at the end of the world?

    Here are 10 reasons why the 70th week of Daniel 9 was actually fulfilled by Christ about 2,000 years ago:
    1. Verse 24 defines “Seventy weeks” as a single block of time.
    2. The 70th week must come after the 69th week; else it can’t really be called the 70th week.
    3. It is illogical and unbiblical to move the last week of this prophecy to the end of the world.
    4. The focus of the prophecy is on the Messiah, not the antichrist. “Messiah” and “Christ” means “anointed one” – who was anointed during the last “week” of the prophecy? Jesus Christ!
    5. Verse 27 says a covenant is “confirmed” in the midst of the week, not broken in the midst of the week. Who creates/confirms covenants in the Bible? Christ only! See Romans 15:8 to see that it was Jesus who “confirmed” the promises made unto the fathers, not antichrist.
    6. Verse 27 says “he shall confirm the covenant with many”. Compare this to Matthew 26:28.
    7. Verse 27 says “midst of the week” (3 ½ years) the sacrifices would cease. When Christ died the temple veil was “rent” from top to bottom and the Jewish sacrifices ceased. (see Matt 27:51) This was the mark that signified any further sacrifices were of no effect in the sight of God.
    8. Verse 27 says “he shall make it desolate”. Compare this to Matt 23:38. Who left the temple desolate? Christ!
    9. The first 3 ½ years of the 70th week Christ ministered only to the Jews – the second 3 ½ years the disciples ministered to the Jews; thus the 70th week is finished at this point, 34 AD, not a future time.
    10. The disciple Stephan was stoned to death by the Sanhedrin in 34 AD which caused the Gospel to go to the Gentiles.

    Further, check out Christ's words in Matthew 18:21. 70x7=490 which is the 490 years of the Daniel 9 prophecy!

    The second Jewish temple (Herod’s temple) was destroyed in 70 AD when Jerusalem was ransacked by the Romans under Prince Titus (see Dan 9:26, you'll see a “prince shall destroy” = Prince Titus). Compare the “desolation” spoken of in Dan 9:27 to the “desolate” of Matt 23:38 & Matt 24:13-16. This is the very sign, the destruction of Jerusalem, that Christ was warning the disciples about (see Luke 21:20-22).

    Conclusion:
    There is no 7-year Tribulation at the end of the world. That teaching comes from a huge mistake resulting in reading much more into a verse than what is actually there. There will be tribulation at the end but it won’t be 7 years long for it falls outside of the Daniel 9 prophecy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So what are the ramifications....This means that there will be no second chance for salvation as many seem to be counting on. The false 7-year tribulation theory undermines the precept of living by faith for even a non-believer would suddenly change his ways after witnessing millions of people all over the world suddenly vanishing in one day.

    Here is a good history of this false doctrine and the reasons behind it...
    https://secretsunsealed.org/content/PDF_downloads/futurismsincrediblejourney.pdf
     
  5. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unless this thread is only for support of this teaching, I would like to clarify a few things.

    The 69 weeks ended with Jesus ending the OT covenant. The 70th week is the ending of the NT covenant. That is the only reason Daniel specified a separate week.

    All other strawman reasons are for the strawman interpretations. They do not exist. Up until this year, no human has explained the whole Plan of God. That being the 6000 year punishment of WORK placed on Adam. This is the specific physical side of Adam's disobedience. All we have had is the spiritual side of Adam's disobedience. And the church today, does not even understand that. Our spirit is separated (spiritual death) from us and is in the presence of God. It is the constant messenger (not a false association with angel guide) with God. We do not have a guardian angel. Our spirit or unconsciousness, that we do not have access to, is in God's presence. Yes God’s angels protect us, but that "guardian angel" is our actual spirit.


    The biggest strawman is a future Antichrist. This teaching is false, and should stop. Ain't gonna happen.

    I agree that the second strawman called the tribulation is very confusing. Why would the Second Coming be surrounded by trouble? Well that is easy. Judgments. Reaping the harvest of souls is not fun, nor joyful. In fact it is downright painful for the lost, and for all the works of the saved that will be burned up with nothing left as a reward. Separation from God, and no rewards to present to God is very troublesome to say the least.

    And really folks, the 7 seals in Revelation are for the church, and the house of Jacob, and the lost do have to suffer, because the church is being punished. The church can only endure and accept God’s punishment in correction and remorse for their disobedience.

    The escape plan is the third strawman. Being harvested is not escape. It is the end. Jesus promised in Matthew that the 7 years would be shortened and it has been. It is only 3.5 years and almost 7 months have already passed.

    It is false teaching to say Daniel's 70th week, which is now only a week of days cannot be the week of the Second Coming. Trying to fit anything into the early church, that not even the early church taught is adding to the book of Revelation, which John warned strongly against, because John witnessed the so called church doing that exact same thing today. This very thread is proof to that point.

    Now this is not judging any person in particular. All are being taught wrong and God will deal with whom ever was involved in deception. It is a friendly reminder that it is time to repent and do God’s work as given by the Holy Spirit to each individual. Asking in fervent prayer that God’s Will be done. The Will that states God loves the whole world, Everyone; not willing that any should Parish, but that Everyone have Everlasting Life.
     
  6. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Reformers and Protestants have correctly regarded the pope as Antichrist, and nothing has changed except now the apostate power has put itself as not only a religious power, but on every level of society, with its true purpose well hidden. But it will show its full self when it oppresses Christ at the end, but then it will be too late to decide who to follow.
     
  7. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Preparation of the saints is now. Abraham was alive when he petitioned God to spare his world. He was not already dead..

    Now is the time to repent and pray that God's will be done. Not the Will of wrath after it is too late. The Will of Grace and Salvation while there is still that choice for both the church and the lost.
     
  8. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,206
    Likes Received:
    526
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You make your points WITHOUT SCRIPTURE SUPPORT. Your post is less than your interpretation - it is your opinion.

    I'll just deal with one point -
    The 69 weeks included various events, some included in Ezra, Nehemiah & Esther. During this time the only prophets were Daniel, who prophesies in detail the events of the various powers, and Haggai, Zechariah & Malachi. We should add Gabriel again, John & his father Zechariah, & Mary, Elisabeth, & Simeon & Anna.

    The purpose of the 70 weeks was to accomplish the saving work of the long-promised Messiah. 70 years of exile was ending as prophesied, & 70x7 years would see the saving work FINISHED as Jesus prayed (John 17:4) & shouted with his dying breath.
    24 “Seventy weeks[fn] are determined
    For your people and for your holy city,
    To finish the transgression,
    To make an end of[fn] sins,
    To make reconciliation for iniquity,
    To bring in everlasting righteousness,
    To seal up vision and prophecy,
    And to anoint the Most Holy.
    That verse details the saving work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The climax of the 69th week was the anointing of the Messiah at his baptism.
    25 “Know therefore and understand,
    That from the going forth of the command
    To restore and build Jerusalem
    Until Messiah the Prince,
    There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
    The 70th week is therefore the 3 1/2 years of Jesus' ministry & the 3 1/3 years of Apostolic ministry up to the stoning of Stephen, when the Jews were declared "uncircumcised." (Acts 7:51) The next event concerned the call of Cornelius, who was welcomed into the church without circumcision.

    Jesus had thus confirmed the Covenant with many for 7 years. The OC was formally ended with the triumphant death of Jesus, & the rending of the temple veil. The NC in Jesus' blood began at Calvary. Compare Exodus 24 when the OC was ratified, & the way it is discussed in Heb. 9.

    Acts 6 tells us how the church grew including -
    7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.

    Presumably that resulted in the effective "end of sacrifice & offering." (Dan. 9:27) The temple still stood & was the focus for the Jews who rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The destruction of the temple & city is included in Gabriel's prophecy. (26-27)
     
  9. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What do you mean by a "Secret Rapture"
     
  10. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    50
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And my opinion is God's opinion. Nothing you quoted verse wise contradicts what I posted. Those same verses are still my proof, that you used. Your interpretation is different. It is not just your opinion I assume. But even if the whole world had your religion and your interpretation, it would not make it Truth. It is still just an interpretation as is mine.
     
Loading...