1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The first Pope was a married Priest

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rockytopva, Oct 7, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    If Peter was the first pope he was a married one....

    And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. - Matthew 8:14-15

    And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her. And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her up; and immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them. - Mark 1:29-31

    And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
    - Luke 4:38-39

    I believe it would be good for the Catholic Church to allow married priests. Here are some recent articles talking about it...

    Pope Francis meeting raises conservatives' fears of married priests - CNN
    Pope Opens Debate on Celibacy Requirement for Catholic Priests

    Here in Blacksburg we have a married Catholic Priest by the name of Dr. Mike Ellerbrock who goes by the title of Deacon and Reverend...

    St. Mary's Staff
    Teaching and preaching: The vocations of Deacon Michael Ellerbrock | The Catholic Virginian

    I do not know why the married Dr. Mike Ellerbrock goes by the title of Deacon and Reverend. But I believe this man would do the Catholic Church good if they let this married man rise up through the ranks. I believe there are many married Catholics who would do their church good as married Priests. And to allow celibate priests only to those able to live such a life....

    His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. - Matthew 19:10-12

    I am a single man who was once in the youth ministry. While I was in this ministry it did well. When I lost my help I had to get out of this ministry as well as I dared not put myself in the position of being alone with children. If I were to serve in any kind of ministry I would want do it married or with a group.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    25,953
    Likes Received:
    673
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Many pastors are putting windows in their Office door.
    That way, the church secretary can see in the office
    (but not hear) confidential counseling.
     
  3. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,926
    Likes Received:
    438
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The argument would be that God had not revealed yet to pope whoever it was that priest had to remain single married to God himself. Priests wear a wedding band as if they are somehow equal to the partner they claim to have married. It’s utter hogwash, just one of the thousands of lies told us by the RCC.

    Perhaps allowing priests to be married is a good idea if you’re out to rescue the church. I consider it a false religion and would just as soon let it burn. If you have to put windows on confessional doors to keep priests from molesting their flock there is something seriously wrong in the base of your religion.
     
  4. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,476
    Likes Received:
    778
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ellerbrock is not a priest; he's a deacon. That means he cannot celebrate Mass, administer confirmation or penance (including hearing confession), or anoint the sick, among other things.

    The permanent diaconate — which includes men like Ellerbrock — arose directly from Vatican II and does indeed allow married men to perform many roles in ministry, but not the most important, from the church's standpoint.

    Transitional deacons are men studying for the priesthood who are ordained into service before passing on to the higher orders.
     
  5. JoeT

    JoeT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2019
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    12
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Your assessment is flawed. Celibacy within the priesthood is a discipline of the Church, it is not doctrine. As early as 305 A.D. local Synods called for celibacy. As a discipline, the First and Second Lateran councils in 1123 and 1139 that priests were required to be unmarried and celibate. It remains a discipline to this day. St. Paul praised celibacy in the priesthood. [Cf. 1 Corinthians 7:32-38] and was celibate himself. The best example however was Jesus Christ, can you imagine Christ being called for supper and away form healing the masses by the wife?

    A married man can 'molest' their flock just as easily as the unmarried. Celibacy allows a man to place his priority on the Church, it emphasis his unique roll in following Christ. it affirms marriage and is completely biblical Matthew 19:11-12 .

    In my mind there is something wrong to base your philosophies and anything else.


    JoeT
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,926
    Likes Received:
    438
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There’s no doubt in my mind the errant practice of celibate priests contributed greatly to the systematic sexual deviancy that’s ruined so many lives.
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    10,411
    Likes Received:
    212
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Celibacy is no more "natural" than being confined to a wheelchair. We don't know if Paul had some physical limitation that made him celibate.

    And if it's a "church discipline", it's MAN-MADE & SHOULDN'T BE FOLLOWED BY CHRISTIANS !

    The church can't send anyone to hell. And God doesn't hold anyone accountable for refusing to follow MAN-MADE "disciplines" or traditions.

    That's part of the RCC's apostasy-it's chock-full of MAN-MADE "DISCIPLINES" & TRADITIONS !
     
    #7 robycop3, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    And pray tell us, what has a married pastorate done to stop sexual deviancy among the Baptist clergy? Answer: Nothing! I read constantly of married Baptist pastors going after young boys, young girls, and other married women. Sexual deviancy and sinful behavior is part of the whole human condition, not just one particular group.
     
  9. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Ah, you're the folks who follow one man, his name John Smyth to be exact. And your places of worship look like the local Grange Hall.
     
  10. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,926
    Likes Received:
    438
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Only one group protected their offenders. If you can uncover repeated offenses with the clergy blocking investigations and moving deviant priests to other parishes in an independent baptist church have at it.
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,769
    Likes Received:
    167
    Hundreds Accuse Independent Baptist Pastors of Abuse


    Brother your talking about sexual predators. You lock me in room of kids for hundred years I am not going to rape anyone.

    The idea if unless a person has a wife they will want to rape little boys, uh....no.

    The playing field of a sexual predator is already sick in the head he doesn't care what religion he signs up to he signing up to be predator.

    If anyone says unless they were married they would be sexual predator, I got bad news for you buddy.
     
  12. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Messages:
    3,562
    Likes Received:
    648
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Until your ranks are sinless and clear and pure as the wind driven snow, you are in no position to talk about any other faith tradition. I think the relevant phrase is: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

    The Catholic Church as a whole has asked forgiveness (and paid compensation) for these terrible sins. If God Himself can forgive and then forget our sins upon repentance, surely as a Christian you can do likewise. If not, you have a serious problem you need to deal with.
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,926
    Likes Received:
    438
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Pfft. As long as you guys claim to be the one true church of Christ I’ll keep this up. Not concerned with anybody’s feelings concerning this.

    But yeah, it’s nice the rcc apologized for keeping their priests well supplied with fresh victims and covering up the trails they left behind.
     
    #13 Bro. Curtis, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  14. JoeT

    JoeT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2019
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    12
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    21,926
    Likes Received:
    438
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That’s why I said independent. Churches giving up autonomy always end up compromising. Two great examples are the RCC and the SBC.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    10,411
    Likes Received:
    212
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My church is IFB, & we don't follow Smyth or any man except JESUS, who's no longer a man. And my church is autonomous, following NO man-made doctrines or "disciplines".

    Now, please show us FROM SCRIPTURE where God commanded celibacy!

    1 Tim.4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

    And, as the OP says, your first pope was married !

    YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !
     
  17. rockytopva

    rockytopva Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I have read extensively on the Catholic Church and will sometimes attend service. But, as I cannot go along with all the teachings, have no interest in joining. Pope Callistus and Saint Hippolytus were two important figures with two different theologies....

    Hippolytus- the ideal of the church as a pure community and not tolerating sins, a church of the pure.
    Callistus - the ideal of the church as a saving community representing the church as Noah’s Ark, taking in ‘all kinds,’ both clean and unclean. Being quick to lovingly encourage repentance and restoration. And also dealing with explosive church growth in his time.

    I believe Pope Callistus was correct! And all Christian churches suffer from the unclean things that enter the congregations The only reason the Catholic Church gets the greater publicity is because they are the larger congregation. As long as we try to entertain the idea of ‘church’ scandal and problems will follow as we are all unique creatures. If my opinion would mean anything I would encourage the Catholic Church to allow married deacons to also pastor churches. Celibacy is tough as Christ taught as something all men cannot handle.
     
  18. rockytopva

    rockytopva Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    29
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I do like to visit churches when I visit the Polynesia. For one thing they keep the churches full of flowers and open. Pictured below is the Catholic church at Bora-Bora and Tahiti. All of which has the images of Christ done up reverently along with crowns of flowers. The church at Bora Bora has its large mountain in the background. Notably missing from these churches was any kind of clergy.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    25,953
    Likes Received:
    673
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Our SBC church has not given up an autonomy! As our DOM has said - SB's are more independent than IFB Baptists!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    25,953
    Likes Received:
    673
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It would not surprise me if your church followed some man-made doctrines.

    Now, you say you do not use instruments for worship - is there a Biblical reason for that?






    What I like to say is: "I dont know if Peter was married, but Scripture does say he had a mother-in-law
     
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...