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Featured The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by teknonoftheos, Sep 30, 2018.

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  1. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    There will be two prophets, otherwise called the “two witnesses” of the book of Revelation, that will appear 3.5 years prior to the second coming of Yeshuah Messiah around the spring of 2023 AD and will die in Jerusalem. There exists a distinction between the “42 months” and “1,260 days” in Revelation, even though they both equate to the same time expressed differently, because one time is figurative and the other is literal, therefore, whatever is declared figuratively in months means each figurative day is one literal year, and whatever is declared in days means literal days. Both these times are mentioned in same passage in Revelation concerning the witnesses and the set-apart city, where the set-apart city is trampled for 42 figurative months, which equates to 1,260 literal years, and the prophesying of two witnesses happens for 1,260 days, which equates to 1,260 literal days, or 42 literal months, or 3.5 literal years. As such, they will have authority to bring whatever plagues they want as often as they want. They will be killed during the trumpet blasts related to the second coming of Yeshuah Messiah, hence why they are mentioned between the sixth and seventh trumpets of Revelation. As such, since we know the time of their death, which will be in autumn in relation to the Festival of Trumpets, then we also know the time of their appearance will be around the spring 3.5 years prior. They will be killed by the newly formed United States of Europe.

    You can read the full study here, The Identity of the Two Witnesses of Revelation | Wisdom of God .
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I have a rather different interpretation:

    Revelation 11:3. ‘And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.’

    So who are these two witnesses? Various suggestions have been put forward. Are they the Old and New Testaments? Law and Grace? Enoch and Elijah? Elijah and Moses? John the Baptist and Jesus? No, it is none of those; it is the true Church of God that has just been measured. As usual, the clue is in the Old Testament. ‘One witness is not enough to convict a man of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the mouths of two or three witnesses’ (Deut 19:15). The Lord Jesus sent His disciples out two by two (Luke 10:1), ‘As a witness’ (Matt 24:14).

    The Church’s witness is to last 1260 days. As we have seen, this is a time equal to the 42 months during which the persecution of God’s people takes place. This is a symbolic time depicting the period between the first and second comings of Christ. So why is the time expressed here in days rather than months? Because the witness must go on day by day by day; ‘In season and out of season’ (2 Tim. 4:2); whether people will hear it or not (Ezek. 2:3-5). The witnesses are dressed in sackcloth, the garb of mourners, for they are mourning over the sins of the people. In Britain today, a clown’s outfit might seem more suitable given some of the forms of evangelism popular in this country, but the scroll that John has eaten is the same one that Ezekiel received, and that one was covered with ‘ lamentation , mourning and woe’ (Ezek. 2:9-10). The witnesses have a sombre message to proclaim of God’s wrath against sin and of impending judgement.

    The witnesses are also ‘The two olive trees and the two lampstands.’ This is a reference to Zech. 4. The purpose of a lampstand is to give light, and therefore refers to the true Church (Matt. 5:14ff). The olive trees supply oil to the lampstands and therefore speak of the Holy Spirit who gives power to the Church’s witness.

    Verses 5-6. ‘And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they wish.’

    Well this would be a good trick, wouldn’t it? There are two references to Elijah here; firstly when he called down fire on two troops of soldiers who came to arrest him (2 Kings 1:10, 12). God will protect His church and its witness if it remains true. Individual witnesses may perish, but the witness will remain. Elijah himself could complain to God; “The children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek my life to take it” (1 Kings 19:14). Yet the Lord preserved him until his successor was in place. The witness went on. ‘To harm’ in verse five means ‘to silence.’ God reacts to those who seek to harm His Church by casting them into hell. The second reference is to the drought for which Elijah called (1 Kings 17:1; James 5:17). Interestingly, James tells us that the drought continued for three and a half years, the ‘Time, times and half a time’ of Daniel and Revelation. Today also, there is a drought, not of water, but of hearing the word of God (Amos 8:11-12) and Christ’s servants must continue their witness before a people who, in general, will not receive it (Acts 28:25-27; Rom. 10:21). There is also a reference to the first Plague upon Egypt. God will protect and avenge His servants as they prophesy, and He will validate their testimony. Notice that the two witnesses have only one mouth. There is only one Gospel.

    From my blog post: Revelation Part 7. The Temple Measured, and the Two Witnesses
     
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  3. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    It never ceases to amaze me how even when someone is given the truth as plain as day, in simple words to understand, they still reject the obvious truth in favor of their own stupid delusions that don’t even make sense.
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Says the one man religion. Is there any living person in the entire world that has it right other than you?

    Did you learn your faith from someone? Or just make it up as you go along?
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Have a nice day. :) You're on ignore.
     
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Bob and Joe?
     
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  7. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    What did I make up? That the the two witnesses of revelation are two actual prophets, exactly as the prophecy says? Or that the two olive trees are the two olive trees that Paul spoke of? Nothing of what I said is “made up”, it is in the same scriptures you and I read from, but what angers you is that you do not understand what you read, so when someone else comes along that knows the prophecies that God has graciously given him understanding in, rather than take his word with joy for explaining these visions to you, you reject it in anger, to your own disadvantage and demise.
     
  8. Walter

    Walter Active Member
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    Labeling people who don't agree with you as stupid, deluded, idiots, etc. Is not charitable and RUDE. Btw, I disagree with Martin on many issues but I do so respectfully. If you want to advance your ideas, I suggest you do the same
     
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  9. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    The apostles called people that refused to hear the truth “fools”. The modern equivalent word for fool is “idiot”. And something that is “foolish” is “stupid”. I am angry with believers, who have had almost 2,000 years since the death of the messiah to understand these truths, but instead, alll I see is lawlessness, lies, stupidity, selfishness, lack of love, rejection of the truth, pride, and many many more evils among those who call thenselves believers. I am very angry. Yet I am still on here, for the the benefit of you people, to perhaps impart the truth to someone among you who is willing to hear it, which to my grief is seems to be no one.
     
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  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Thats fine, But is there anyone in the world at all who actually agrees with you?

    One man self-proclaimed prophet religions come a dime a dozen.

    Everyone is in delusion but you.

    Am I going to pick up the same kind of patience you show when someone disagrees with you?

    What are you bringing to the table that is of actual benefit to anyone?


    I want to know WHO TAUGHT YOU. Is there an actual Rabbi I can follow who you learned from? Or the one who taught him?


    I want to make sure i'm not falling for some spoiled rich kid's delusion of grandeur, or some fake wannabe prophet who just set out to invent doctrine by himself. I doubt you would blindly follow anyone that claims to know the truth alone.

    Does my request sound unreasonable?
     
  11. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    The best way to prove if I am a false prophet is to debunk anything I have claimed. If what I said concerning the two witnesses is false, and that they will not be two prophets, then debunk my statement through scriptures. If the two olives do not symbolize Israel and the gentiles, then debunk my statement through scripture. It shouldn’t be difficult to do so if everything I am saying is a lie. What I bring to the table is the truth, which is priceless. A dog does not realize the value of pearls, and relates to those who say, “what benefit to us is there in what you say?” If a ten year old were telling me the truth, I would not despise him and reject what he said for being a ten year old. If a homeless man were telling me the truth, I would not despise him for being homeless and reject what he said. You judge by appearances, rather than by what’s actually being said. Of what lies do you accuse me of? Do enlighten me wise one. Tell us who the two witnesses are and interpret each part of the visions in revelation and Zechariah in relation to them as I have for you, which you have rejected, because you do not like that God granted me abundance in the world, before I willingly left my commodities in America to move to a third world country to serve.
     
  12. Walter

    Walter Active Member
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    He has been asked this several times and will not answer.

    If anyone challenges his beliefs he throws a tantrum and declares them hell bound. He states that he is 'angry with believers who have had almost 2,000 years to understand these truths'. Here is a truth he doesn't seem to get:

    Truth comes from God, not us.
    Consider the following passage of God’s Word in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians.

    For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God…For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:18, 22-25)

    Until he happened along, everyone has believed lies and falsehoods for the past 2000 years? Are we to believe that he is the only one who has been given the deposit of faith to pass along? According to him, when Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church He was wrong, for all Christians have been believing in the Trinity for 2,000 years and, according to this 'one-man religion' have all been lost, for believing so. Unfortunately, I fear he will find some gullible souls in the country he has chosen to spread this made up faith. I think he realizes he is wasting his time with his rank heresy on this board.
     
  13. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    When have I ever claimed to be the only person on earth to know the truth? That is something you made up, not me. From my studies you will see that I affirm two truths, FIRST, that there is only a remnant on earth chosen by God for salvation, and SECOND, that this remnant is organized throughout the earth as seven small assemblies, hence the menorah in the temple of God and the seven assemblies in the book of Revelation. There is no one else on earth that will inherit the kingdom of God except this very small remnant. In relation to my calling, once I receive the anointing, I will establish one of those seven assemblies. Many are called, but few chosen. And few find the narrow gate, so it should be logical that very few people will be speaking the truth as I am to you, which you people reject over and over again for whatever reasons your darkened hearts can come up with. Oh because I am a "spoiled kid", or because "I speak too harshly", or because "I'm the only one you've heard say this or that", or whatever stupid objections you come up with to reject the truth.

    These people are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires (Jude 1:6)
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I asked you a question, are you trying to say my request is unreasonable?

    Name anybody who has a better understanding of the scriptures than you.

    Who taught you this? If the truth isn't a threat then you got no problem pointing out a rabbi or a sect we can learn this from.
     
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  15. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    First answer my questions. What lies do you convict me of? What have I said that is untrue?
     
  16. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "From my studies you will see that I affirm two truths, FIRST, that there is only a remnant on earth chosen by God for salvation, and SECOND, that this remnant is organized throughout the earth as seven small assemblies, "


    If its all on God to choose the Elect. Whats the point in whining about what anyone does?

    If you had a lick of common sense you would be praying to God to elect more people, not wasting your time trying to change minds and elect people yourself.

    You want to talk about folks believing STUPID things.
     
  17. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    The one who lacks understanding is you, because not only do you not understand that God has chosen already who will be saved from before the foundations of the world, but the word of salvation comes to those appointed for salvation through the mouth of men of God. If it wasn't so, there would've been no need for Yeshuah to send off his disciples unto the world to spread the gospel.
     
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Lets starts with saying 'I called you a "liar" and that you spoke "untrue"'

    You go back to my very first post, buddy.

    It was always the questions. I never called you nothing.
     
  19. teknonoftheos

    teknonoftheos Member

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    Then I have nothing further to say to you. You are seeking to discredit me by whatever ways you can try to come up with against me. Whether it be by who you think taught me, or by my background, or whatever other reasons to try to discard the truth I have spoken. As I said, if you wish to debunk what I have said, you are welcome to do so through scripture, which you have failed to do, because it is obvious you cannot, which is why you have to resort to these other ways to try to discredit me. Everything I have said is the truth. You are not in the truth.
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You think God doesn't have something better then internet or a cell phone?

    What is the minimal requirement of the gospel.

    Instead of combativeness and arguing with people. You lay out the gospel, Job is done, and then pray to God.
     
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