1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The LORD said to My Lord…

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, May 14, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to him, “The son of David.”( Matthew 22:41-42). How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, in the Holy Spirit, declared, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet.” David himself calls him Lord. So how is he his son?” And the great throng heard him gladly.” (Mark 12:35-37). And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions” (Matthew 22:46)”

    This is THE most Important question that any human being can ever be asked, “What do you think about the Christ?. The answer to this question will determine the eternal destiny of every human, depending on what their answer is. Who is Jesus Christ? To these Jews, Jesus says, “what do you think about The Messiah”, “Ho Christos” being the Greek equivalent to the Hebrew, “Mashiach”.

    Jesus is not here denying that He is “The Son of David”, which means that His human line came from David. This is confirmed in the very first verse in the Gospel of Matthew. Those who heard Jesus preach, often called out to Him, “"Have mercy on us, Son of David!" (Matthew 9:27; 15:22; 20:30, etc). To which Jesus never objected. The Term, “The Son of David”, was known as a Title of the Messiah at this time, as we read in Matthew 12:23, “All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?”. And, “Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?” (John 7:42). These first century Jews knew what it meant by “The Son of David”.

    In these passages in the Gospels, Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament Psalm 110.

    “The LORD said to My Lord…”

    It is clear from these passages, that Jesus Christ is here claiming for Himself, Absolute Deity, as Yahweh, and fully equal with God the Father.

    Psalm 110 is understood as Messianic, by the older Jewish commentators. Which is what the Jews in Jesus’ time would have known. As we see for verse 1:

    “In the Midrash Tehillim on this passage, it is said, " God spake thus to the Messiah”” (J Stewart Perowne, The Book of Pslams, p.288)

    John Gill says in his commentary, that the Targum of Jonathan reads in verse 1, “the Lord said to his Word”

    Here we have, "The LORD (Yahweh) said”, “to My Lord (Adoni)” a direct address by Yahweh to Adon (the root word), which is masculine and singular. It is argued by some, that this Hebrew noun is used in the sense of “master, lord, sir, governor”, as a title of “respect” for a more “noble” person, and always only for humans, and never of God. As we shall see, that these arguments are misleading, and do not reflect the use of “Adon”, in the Bible.

    The Masoretes punctuate verse one: “Adoni”, which is the singular noun and singular suffix, literally, “my lord”, or “my Lord”. This can be used for God as well as humans. The form “Adonai”, plural noun and singular suffix, literally, “my Lords”, or “Lord”, which is only used for God.

    A website that is used to promote “Unitarianism” as the Bible’s Teaching of the God of the Bible, and is anti Trinitarian, says this on the use of “Adon” in this verse:

    “The Hebrew word translated “my lord” is adoni (pronounced “Adon nee”) in the standard Hebrew texts. This word is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God...The difference between adon (the root word), adoni (“lord,” always used of men or angels) and adonai (which is used of God and sometimes written adonay) is critical to the understanding of Psalm 110:1.” (Psalm 110:1 - A Verse Used to Support the Trinity | BiblicalUnitarian.com)

    Likewise, we have the argument used by a Jewish Rabbi:

    “I should note that the second “lord” in Hebrew is not “ado-nai” – the term the Torah reserves for God, but “adoni”. The latter is a simple Hebrew word which means “my lord” but is not sacred. Throughout the Torah that word is used in reference to honored human beings but never to God, e.g. Genesis 18:3, 23:6, 24:18, 31:35, 33:8, 34:14, 44:18, etc. Thus, it was incorrectly capitalized in your translation. In fact, Hebrew has no capital letters so capitalizations which are found in English translations are merely based on translators’ assumptions, and as you can see, are not always reliable.” (Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld; Psalm 110 – Two Lords: Ask the Rabbi Response)

    Are these comments factually right? The evidence from the Old Testament itself, will show that these two websites are here are completely wrong. There are many instances in the Old Testament, where “Adon” is used for Almighty God. In Exodus 23:17, “the Lord (Adon) GOD”; Exodus 34:23, “before the Lord (Adon) GOD, the God of Israel”; Joshua 3:11, 13, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”; Psalm 97:5, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Psalm 114:7 reads, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord (Adon)”; Isaiah 1:24, 3:1, 10:16, 10:33, 19:4, “the Lord (Adon), the LORD of hosts”; Isaiah 51:22, “Thus saith thy Lord (Adon) the LORD, and thy God”; Micah 4:13, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Zechariah 4:14, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; 6:5, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”. In Deuteronomy 10:17, we read: “O give thanks to the Lord of lords”; and Psalm 136:3, it says: “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”. In the Hebrew, where it says “Lord”, and “lord”, in its 4 uses, the word used is, “Adon”. They are in the masculine plural, literally, “master of masters”. So, to say that “Adon”, “is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God”, as these websites do, is downright misleading.

    It matters not whether it reads as it does in Psalm 110:1, as “my Lord”, or, as in Isaiah 51:22, “thy Lord”, or, simply “the Lord”. Each case the root word is the same in the Hebrew, “Adon”. And we have clear uses of this word for the Lord God in the Old Testament, and not as some suggest, only used for humans.

    Verses that use “Adon” in these contexts, “the Lord of the whole earth”, and “the Lord of all the earth”, and “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”, show that God is seen as The Absolute Ruler and Power in the universe. Hardly of someone who is simply a “lord or master, or noble”! Interesting, that in the Greek Old Testament by Symmachus, at the end of the 2nd century, it says in Psalm 110:1, “The Lord said “τῷ δεσπότη μου”, which is not simply “Lord”, but of “Absolute Ruler”. The Greek “δεσπότης”, is from where we get our “Despot” from, which means, “a ruler with absolute power and authority” (Webster’s Dictionary). Colin Brown’s, New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, defines as, “despotes expresses the arbitrary, unlimited exercise of power without any real conditions”.

    Verse 5 makes it very clear Who is “Adoni” is in verse 1. Here it reads:

    “The Lord at your Right Hand”

    Which is a further reference to “Adoni”, Who is at the Right Hand of “Yahweh”. In verse 5 the Hebrew word used in the greater majority of manuscripts, is “Adonay”, and not “Adoni”. “Adonay” is always used in the Old Testament for Almighty God, and never for any humans or heavenly beings. There are about 20 Hebrew Masoretic Text, that reads in verse 5, “Yahweh”. Either Name is that used for the Eternal, Unchanging, Self-Existing, God of the Holy Bible. And here it is clearly used for the Lord Jesus Christ!

    Some, who cannot accept the fact, that Jesus Christ is here identified as Almighty God, have suggested that verse 5 does not mean what it actually says. As Dr Cheyen says in his Commentary:

    “The description in vv. 2, 3 is resumed. The Lord is Jehovah (surely not the king), who is invisibly standing at His viceroy's right hand” (p.303)

    Others try to read, “the Lord is at your Right Hand”, which is not in the Hebrew.

    The “Yahweh” of verse 1, now changes places with “Adon”, and is on His Right Hand! This is no more than conjecture and the rejection of what the Bible plainly Teaches. There is NO Scripture passage that says that God the Father is at the Right Hand of Jesus Christ. What it does say in verse 5, is that the “Adon”, which some of the Masoretic manuscripts, by the Jews, read “Yahweh”, is COEQUAL with “Yahweh”. Verse one can be translated as “Yahweh says to my Yahweh”.

    The passages in the Gospels, when read with Psalm 110, is one of the clearest and strongest, testimonies by The Lord Jesus Christ, on His Absolute Deity. These passages also show that the God of the Holy Bible is not “Unitarian”, as there are here TWO distinct “Persons” Who are EQUALLY Almighty God.
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,209
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Baptist
    On the contrary He is affirming His sovereignty with God in His humanity. That is why they could not answer Him. God saying to David's Lord, ". . . Sit thou at my right hand, . . ."
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Pslam Jesus is quoting from especially verse 1, has nothing to do with His humanity, but has to do with His Absolute Deity, as YHWH!
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who, do you think David believed The LORD to be?
    Who, do you think David believed, "Lord of me," to be?

    What do you think David believed about verse four relative to verse one considering what we know is stated in Hebrews 5:5,6
    so also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: 'My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;' as also in another place He saith, 'Thou art a priest -- to the age, according to the order of Melchisedek;'
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He is affirming that he Himself is God!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,209
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well the "Lord" in Psalms 110:1 is not "the LORD" that being YHWH. BTW Psalms 110:1 is used by JW's as proof text against the deity of Christ!
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    did you read the OP? I have shown that Pslam 110 shows that Jesus Christ was saying that He is Almighty God!
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    meaning what?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus was claiming to be NOT the human Messiah as they had expected, another King David, but that he was messiah God!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Another faulty Christology view of His, eh?
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    does he believe in the Absolute Deity of Jesus and 100% Equality with the Father? I have my doubts
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,209
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Psalms 110:1 does not directly refer to "my Lord" as deity. Rather on the right hand of deity as a non deity!
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,209
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Lord Jesus Christ is both a real man [now immortal] and also the one and the same LORD God as His Father.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    are you a JW on here as "baptist"???
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    DISTINCT from the Father!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    are you a confused person? You write this, and then give the impression that Jesus is "LORD God"?
     
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm just wondering how we think David viewed what he wrote relative to himself, his Lord and the LORD. I am not sure what I think he thought. Just was wondering what you thought.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,209
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you accusing me of not being a saved Christian?
    Do you not believe the Lord Jesus Christ is a man distinct from God per 1 Timothy 2:5? Do you deny that He is the Son per John 1:18? Do you deny John 1:18 is by which the LORD God who appears to Abraham in Genesis 12:7 is the Son?
     
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,338
    Likes Received:
    458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did David know that his, David's, seed would be raised from the dead as his, David's, Lord to sit on the right hand of The LORD?

    I say yes.

    Did David know that his David's seed would be priest forever according to the order of Melchisedec being told by The LORD. "Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee."?

    When and by what means was Jesus, the seed of David, who was raised out of the dead, 2 Tim 2:8 glorified to be made priest for ever after the order of ?
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,179
    Likes Received:
    442
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the OP should expalin this?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...