The Lord's church a denominational mess?

I said no such thing. You have an inventive imagination.

My words that followed were as so:

As anyone can see, what I meant was explained.

Now, as you seem to do little on this board anymore except take off-topic shots at the written Word of God and discourage believing God's Book, I have no desire to discuss anything with you.

 

AMEN!

That is the case whether we like it or not.

The choice we have is whether or not we are going to respond to that truth biblically.

 

Of course, you are right. There is no perfect church.

Quote from Tom:

Ed says:

And so do I. But unity is not achieved by pretending that the differences either don't exist or are not important enough to be tests of fellowship. There is a reason that like-minded believers assemble with each other. It is that they are like-minded.

 

So, is it possible for all believers to unify into one body?

If so, how is that to be achieved?

The answer, of course, is that it can't this side of heaven. One reason is that as long as we all appeal to scripture to support our differing beliefs, nobody will back off.

The other reason is that no such body exists today. There is no such animal as the "universal church." The scripture knows of only local congregations. It may also use the word church in a generic or institutional sense, in the same way we speak of the family.

Local congregations may join together collective ventures, such as missions, education, etc.

That is where believers find unity--in the local congregation, in associations of churches, small or large. Imperfect, of course, but unity nonetheless.

JSM17 suggests that Free Will Baptists and Primitive Baptists get together. Maybe the Church of Christ folks can get together with the Disciples of Christ. They used to have a lot in common. Of course it won't happen because it's artificial and contrived.

Unity is not singing cum-bah-yah around the campfire.

 

All churches in the New Testament were assemblies at different locations, to imagine one big world wide church called the "Planet Earth Christian Church" would be simply a disaster!! How would they ever agree to a governing body or a faith/mission statement?? Such a church would have an immediate reformation and protestants the very first week!! I can think of some christians now that would lead the split!!

Darren

 

Yeah but they all believe they are following the bible in doctrine and practice, that part, for the sake of a practical purpose is biblical. Everyone has a different idea of who is right and wrong and scripture to show for it!!

Darren

 

So wait, now I'm confused. You bash the Baptists (on a Baptist board, no less) for denominationalism, but then you state that you in your denomination would not fellowship with those in the Disciples of Christ??? [BTW, I do know those in that denomination, and they definitely consider themselves to be Christians.]

So then, what is the answer?? Is your only answer then to join your non-denomination, denomination??

 

I note that Paul was writing to a local church in Corinth, which had a few problems. I doubt if Paul would write them and tell them that such squabbling was normal, and have at it. He was espousing an ideal, a goal to strive for. A worthy goal for all of us. Most congregations I know of don't divide over doctrine; they divide over practice.

Yes, Christ is perfect, but his churches are not because they are made up of imperfect people. To borrow a line from somebody, if you find the perfect church, don't join it because it won't be perfect any more.

I am united with the body of Christ. It is the congregation I serve. We are united on salvation and worship. The body of which I am a member voluntarily associates with other like-minded bodies of Christ.

If you insist on defining the body of Christ as all believers everywhere, you have an impossible standard to meet. Yes, Christ is not divided, but his people can be because they are imperfect.

If you equate belonging to Christ as always being agreed with each other, we're all dead in the water.

I have asked this question before: How does one achieve such unity? What has to happen for all believers to be one?

I claim the Bible as authoritative and inerrant. i claim the doctrines I hold as biblical, not man-made. You claim the same, I assume. Great. Glad you've decided to be a Baptist.

Of course, I'm kidding.

I'd be happy to throw off the name Baptist. We didn't think it up in the first place. It was given to us by our enemies.

I didn't join a denomination. I joined a local church. A church that is not divided.

 

Funny, in the town where I used to pastor there was a large Church of Christ Church. But, they split. The older folks thought the church was becoming to liberal (they didn't like the pastor using a projector, etc.), left and started another Church of Christ Church. If the system were so perfect and united this should have never happened. Just because one claims to be of the one church does not make it so. Reality says other wise.

 

JSM17: // I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations. //

God does NOT speak against 'denominations'. I have in my pocket several 'denominations' of coinage and paper money: $20, $10, $5, $1, 25¢, & 10¢. They are all American Money (I have an one Euro piece also
The Bible does not speak of Velcro. Nevertheless, I use Velcro every day but Sunday to hold my shoes on my feet.. (On Sunday I wear Cowboy boots).

 

You know something. I think Baptists are right on just about everything. And where other denominations (such as the Church of Christ) disagree, they are wrong.

But all bound for hell?

If you sprinkle instead of immerse, I think you're wrong? But bound for hell?

If you believe one can lose his salvation, I think you're wrong. But automatically bound for hell?

If you are not a Baptist, I think you're wrong. But bound for hell?

Follow this reasoning:
If your denomination has some issues (say, for instance, a conservative resurgence), that makes you divided. That's bad. Denominations bad. Can't be true churches. Its members are lost. Christ's church is not divided. We are not divided. We are not a denomination (bad, remember?). We are the only Christians, because we are the true church. Outside the true church, guess what? Sorry about that?

Sound familiar?

 

See www.church-of-christ.org for their (non-denominational)denominational web site.

Actually, wikipedia (though far from perfect I know), has a pretty fair assessment. This is taken from the wiki site --

Doctrine of Salvation (Soteriology)
Churches of Christ are strongly anti-Calvinist in their understanding of salvation, and generally present conversion as "obedience to the proclaimed facts of the gospel rather than as the result of an emotional, Spirit-initiated conversion."[13]:215
Churches of Christ hold the view that humans of accountable age are lost because of their sins.[9]:124 These lost souls can be redeemed because Jesus Christ, the Son of God, offered Himself as the atoning sacrifice.[9]:124 Children too young to understand right from wrong, and make a conscious choice between the two, are believed to be innocent of sin.[7]:107[9]:124 The age when this occurs is generally believed to be around 13.[7]:107
Churches of Christ generally teach that the process of salvation involves the following steps:[1]

1. One must be properly taught, and hear (Rm 10:17, Matt. 7:24),
2. One must believe or have faith (Heb 11:6, Mk 16:15-16),
3. One must repent, which means turning from one's former lifestyle and choosing God's ways (Acts 2:38, 17:30, Luke 13:3),
4. One must confess belief that Jesus is the son of God (Matthew 10:32-33; Acts 8:36-37),
5. One must be baptized for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38; I Pet 3:20-21; Romans 6:3-5; Mark 16:16; Acts 22:16),
6. One must remain faithful unto death (Rev. 2:10).

 

That is a good and accurate summary. It is too bad they missed the gospel, the only means by which one is saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: