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The moral standards of Jesus

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Did Jesus give us moral standards that He knew we could not live up to, such as in the Greatest Commandment and the Sermon on the Mount? If so, why?
     
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Well-Known Member

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    Here's my short version of an answer (no comments from the peanut gallery :laugh:)

    • God made us in His image and therefore, we are to reflect His image.
    • He explained what that meant, "Be ye holy, as I am holy".
    • He showed us what that meant in terms of us being holy on our own accord - the Law.
    • We couldn't do it - for obvious reasons. And that was the intent of the Law - to show us that we can't be holy because we have a sin nature.
    • Jesus kept it. Perfectly.
    • God made a way for us to be holy as He is holy.
    • Jesus, ironically the only One to be able to keep the Law, bore our sin and took it away - sin being the factor that keeps us from being holy.
    • We are now able to be holy as God is holy - via the blood of Jesus. And yes, that means that now we can keep those commandments because we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
     
    #2 Scarlett O., Jun 29, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  3. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

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    I believe that the principle Paul stated in Galatians 3:22-25ff could apply here. Although "the law" he mentions in this passage specifcally refers to the OT law, any of Christ's commands for us could also in effect be considered as "law" for us in the NT era.

    What was the purpose of a "schoolmaster" (what we'd today probably call a tutor)? It was to teach the student something(s). In Paul's illustration it would be to teach us that we cannot by ourselves keep the law. That's where Christ's imputed righteousness for His children comes unto play.

    While there's no way possible for us by ourselves to keep the law perfectly, in Christ we can keep the law!! Yes, we're going to stumble along the way, but that's where 1 John 1:8-2:1 comes into the picture.

    Salvation by grace +/- nothing.......Amazing, isn't it!!!
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

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    Compare:

    "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

    With:

    "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

    What do you think?
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member

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    All humanity, or mankind existed in Adam and Eve, and God created them "upright" or according to His moral standard - sinless perfection - His moral image. Hence man lived up to that moral image.

    The fall of man into sin was the fall from that moral image and ability to live up to it . The restoration to that moral image cannot be obtained outside of Christ. By ONE MAN sin entered the world and death by that one man's sin and many were made sinners. Likewise, by ONE MAN'S obedience many will be made righteous. There is NO SALVATION (meaning no ability to be righteous) outside of Christ and salvation is all of grace without works.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

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    yes, as both of those were revealing to humans the very holiness/nature of God, and how he expects us to keep them IF would would merit salvation, but since NONE can, leads us to rrealise that we need to stop looking at keeping the law and look to he who kept the law for us, jesus!
     
  7. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

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    I think you just did a bang up job in prooftexting.

    How about spending a little time examining the context in which those verses are found. Maybe if you did, you might just see the folly of your exercise in comparing apples to oranges.

    You know, using your line of reasoning (or lack thereof), I can "conclusively prove" that the Bible teaches that there is no God!!

    Yep, it's right there in black & white in the quotation David cites in Psalm 53:1a --- "There is no God."

    (Of course I conveniently omitted David's preceeding qualifying clause, but I guess that wouldn't matter too much in your case.)

    A wise old person once said that "A text without a context is merely a pretext!!"

    ("Think on these things.")
     
  8. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    The answer to the OP is yes, God did set a standard he knew we could not keep.

    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.

    Jesus could demand no less, it seems to me. I can't imagine Jesus saying to us, "Now I'm holy and perfect, but you're not, so I'm going to cut you some slack on this holiness thing. I'm going to let you get by with a little sin here and there, 'cause I know you can't help it."

    Paul, of course, has the explanation. The law teaches us that we can't live up to it, even if we want to, and forces us to turn to the Lord Jesus for mercy.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    There are many commands that are "impossible" to keep:

    Be ye holy as I am holy.

    Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    38 This is the first and great commandment.

    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    The two great commandments are impossible to keep. But such commands we may look at as goals to obtain to the best of our ability while on earth.

    We are to "go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature."
    I am sure none of us has accomplished that either, not individually, not as a local church, and not collectively in our generation of Biblical Christianity. We have failed miserably as all have not heard the gospel. But it should remain our goal to reach all.
     
  10. 33ad

    33ad New Member

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    Do you really love Jesus

    John 14:21
    King James Version (KJV)
    21*He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    John 14:21
    Douay-Rheims 1601
    21*He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me. And he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    Another reason to become catholic they keep all the ten comandements
     
  11. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Oh, please. With the posts you have been making, no one is going to take you seriously.
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I like your answer.

    I'll add mine, but not yet. I hope more people will reply.
     
  13. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    It is only Christians who think Jesus' standards can not be kept. Moses and God thought they could.
     
  14. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

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    And your specific Bible chapter and verse citations to back up your point(s) would be......??
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No one keeps the Ten Commandments; not you either.

    If you say you do, beware:

    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 10:14

    Positionally, all who are in Christ are blameless, as has been the case for all of His redeemed, born from above saints down through the ages.

    Even after all they had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (murmuring, idolatry, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to say:

    He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21

    Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8

    But practically, no one is capable of maintaining a lifelong, unbroken, obedience to the law. No one. Positionally, yes, but that's only due to God's faithfulness and not our ability.
     
    #16 kyredneck, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2012
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

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    #17 kyredneck, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2012
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

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    Here's some more 'contrast' for you to get bent out of shape about:

    Compare:

    ......by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Gal 2:16

    With:

    ......the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:14

    What do you think?
     
    #18 kyredneck, Jul 1, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2012
  19. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    Galatians 2:16 and Romans 2:14 are perfect examples of the works of the law in the Old Testament, which includes circumcision, observance of special days, dietary laws about eating and drinking, etc; and the New “perfect law” (James 1:25) as given in the New Testament that does not include circumcision of the flesh, observance of special days, etc, for those things are works no longer required, God nailed them to the cross (Colossians 2:14).

    We are always to obey the perfect law.
     
  20. Moriah

    Moriah New Member

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    If we are to believe that God gave us the command to be perfect, but that we did not really believe God meant for us to do it, then what kind of spirit does one have inside them? If I did not live as if it were a possibility, then why would I even try?
     
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