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Featured The original written word of God.

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Nov 25, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Some important factors.
    Verbal.
    Plenary.
    Inerrant.
    Infallible.
    Immutable.
    Self Authenticating.
     
    #1 37818, Nov 25, 2021
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  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the modern, if not all, translations fail in a number of these areas in places. The few places in the KJV are well known.
     
    #2 37818, Mar 5, 2022
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  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    More factors

    Matthew 24:35 “…my words will not pass away.”
    (Includes written and spoken words)

    Inspiration - God inspired the authors who wrote as they were moved by the Spirit

    There are no original documents of Scripture.

    Transcription (copying) of Scripture is not inspired

    Translations are not the original Word of God, translators are not inspired

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, Mar 6, 2022
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Either the copies are on the whole representative of what the origins were as they were given or we have no meaningful written word of God, just wishful documents. (! Matthew 4:4, Matthew 5:18 !)
     
    #4 37818, Mar 6, 2022
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  5. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    I would say that the overwhelming majority of Greek Manuscripts are very accurate copies of the Originals. Not perfect copies, but generally very accurate.
     
    #5 Conan, Mar 6, 2022
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  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    #6 Deacon, Mar 6, 2022
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  7. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    And it's unfortunate that so many Non-Evangelical denominations would disagree, isn't it?
     
    #7 alexander284, Mar 21, 2022
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  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Bible translations which generally hold to the verbal plenary tradition, KJV, ASV, NASB (... 1995, 2020, LSB) and the NKJV.
     
    #8 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  9. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    Would you include the ESV on this list?
     
    #9 alexander284, Mar 26, 2022
  10. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Nearly all Bible versions adhere to the above.
     
    #10 RipponRedeaux, Mar 26, 2022
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The translations I listed are those which use italics to show words not from the text being translated as was done in the KJV. The ASV to the RSV broke from that KJV tradition of doing that. The ESV follows the RSV in not doing this. Most assist in translation words are not in italics anyway even in the KJV.
    KJV John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.". Two words in italics, "is" and the second "him."
     
    #11 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    And all translations as a translation might break from it. No translations are inerrant or immutable.
     
    #12 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  13. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit: when I'm reading the ESV, I do miss those italics.
     
    #13 alexander284, Mar 26, 2022
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I bought my copy of the ESV because a Gideon's New Testament used it. What I didn't know before hand, the Gideon's had gotten permission to make select changes per the TR. Like Luke 4:4.
     
    #14 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Greek text family 35 is intended to be as close as possible to the identity of the New Testament text. It is a critical text which is not merely the Byzantine or Majority text.
    A work prepared by Wilbur N. ,Pickering

    New Greek Text of the N. T. - Prunch
     
    #15 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #16 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  17. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    If there are no original documents (and the autographs are long gone) and neither “transcription” nor “translation” is INSPIRED, then Matthew 24:35 is false … the words of God HAVE passed away because God failed to protect them. From your statements, even the Torah written by the hand of Moses was only an “uninspired transcription” of the inspired spoken words of God with the two tablets of stone and the wall in Daniel the only words “written by God”.

    I think God has a vested interest in preserving His word. I believe Matthew 24:35 is true. I believe that God has inspired more than you give Him credit for. The errors do not negate the hand of God, they necessitate the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth.

    You are free to follow an unknowable God whose words are lost to time … that is your right.
     
    #17 atpollard, Mar 26, 2022
  18. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    The use of italics in translation is pointless. It's an unfruitful and an illogical enterprise. If italics would be put in every passage it would be an optical nightmare. What about the fact that those translations that use italics do not put them where untranslated words or phrases are not put in the text?
    I'm a fan of footnotes instead of italics.
     
    #18 RipponRedeaux, Mar 26, 2022
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  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The the 1611 KJV used both.

    NASB20, ". . . brothers and sisters . . . ."
     
    #19 37818, Mar 26, 2022
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  20. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    In the 1611 or later additions are you saying that there were blanks with italics set forth? Logos has shown that there are big differences between the 1611 and future additions with respect to the number of italics.

    I don't understand what you were saying about the 2020 NASB.
     
    #20 RipponRedeaux, Mar 26, 2022
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