The Perfect Inerrant Bible

Amen, Brother Keith M -- Preach it! :thumbs:

And I find a majority of people on the Baptist Board who responded
to a nearby poll thought the following were valid Bibles:

King James Version (KJV), 1611 Edition
King James Version (KJV), 1769 Edition
King James Version (KJV), 1873 Edition

The Traditional Baptist Doctrine, Compentcy of the Believer,
leads to the Truth:
Individual Beleivers (as well as groups of believers)
are Competent to determine the legitmaticy and/or
Validity of English Bible Versions

 

Behind the questions of the OP, notice the assumptions are: 1) that it is possible to have a perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English; also 2) there can only be one perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English; and finally 3) God must provide the perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English.

Looking at these assumptions separately--

1) Yes, I believe it is possible to have a perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English.

But at first blush, it would seem improbable that the scriptures could have been transferred to the present day without loss, addition, or changes. Look at the natural obstacles... First, most scripture was recorded many years after the events which it describes which relies upon the individuals memory or collective verbal tradition (this is not a concern for most Baptists). Second, the writer recorded exactly God's intended message (this is usually the focus). Third, the writer's original autograph was copied by hand and remotely distributed and recopied over centuries (originals were eventually worn out or lost). Next, the extant fragmented copies are collected, compared, and reasonably reconstructed (textual criticism). Lastly, the reconstructed text is translated into another language. Rationally, it would seem implausible to receive the complete, unadulterated original message. The standard traditional Baptist position is that perfection, infallibility and inerrancy applies only to the original, Holy Spirit inspired autographs. With God, all things are possible... but that doesn't mean it has absolutely happened.

We need to recognize that we read a translation (unless you read Greek, Hebrew and/or Aramaic). If anything is certain about the process it is that there is no such thing as a 'perfect' transfer from the original language into the target language (inevitable loss). There is also no translation without some interpretation (inevitable alteration), and interpretation is opinion/consensus, and human opinions can be wrong. Unless, of course, there is supernatural intervention.

2) Is there only one perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English? There is no scriptural or empirical evidence that indicates that there is a limit (we don't want to place limits upon God, do we?). I find translation problems in all versions (including the KJV). Even the KJV translators stated in the preface to the readers that humans cannot produce something perfectly. Translators should, and do, utilize many previously published versions to prepare their text. Surely, perfect text cannot result from imperfect sources. The AV men admitted that these other translations were also the Word of God and we are well advised by them.

3) God must provide the perfect, inerrant translation of the Word of God in English. God is not required to provide His Word in English. When the Bible says that His words will exist forever (Mat 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33, Isa 40:8, 1 Pet 1:23, etc) it does not prescribe that it must be in English. At the least, it is very arrogant of any group or individual to declare that they posses the Word of God exclusively.

Some folks may choose to have faith that God has miraculously guided a translation. However, if there is no scriptural basis for this doctrine then it is not superior to any other sincere belief, and is in fact, a potentially dangerous heresy. They are insecure people that prefer a false assurance of certainty to a honest admission of doubt.

 

Amen, Bro. Franklin...PREACH IT!

Nne-Versionist, regardless of which version he/she champions, can support his/her claims with SCRIPTURE.

As for being perfect and inerrant, I believe that GOD has caused, and still causes, valid translations of His word to to have been written, and to be written AS HE CHOOSES.

 

KJV....2 Chron 21:20 "Thirty and two years old was he when he began to reign, and he reined...eight years..." makes the father 40 when he died.....

2 Chron 22:2 "forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." Miracle. He was only, as the youngest son, two years older than his father....Hmmm

Right, we have it corrected in 2 Kings 8:26: "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign......" Hmmmm

How old was Ahaziah or his dad?

And there are many more lke this in the KJV folks....It sure ain't perfect!

Cheers,

Jim

 

Why would God allow His inspired translation to be corrupted by printers?

In other words... if the KJV is not the perfectly printed, inerrant Word of God in the English language then what is? If there isn't a perfectly printed, inerrant English translation of the Bible then why isn't there? Isn't God powerful enough to see to it that we have the perfect, inerrant Word of God in print?

When did all the printer's errors get corrected? How would we know the difference between a printer's error and a 'regular' error?

 

If you insist on being literal, then Jesus' statement about jots and tittles can only apply to the written Hebrew language, and would be irrelevent in a discussion about the Word of God in English.

 

Amen, Brother Jim and Brother Franklin! Preach it!

 

Just perhaps God did not intervene in the printing of any translation passed down through the ages to prevent Bible worship, which some seem to do.

We are not to idolize the Bible, but we are to embrace the Word of God. One is a vehicle of truth, whilst the other is Truth.

Cheers,

Jim

PS, I know my beloved 1945 KJV is true. I added all the corrections in ink.

 

I'd like a copy please of the Jim's King James 1945 :tongue3:

 

Sorry, it is priceless and comes with 61 years of kneeling.

Cheers,

Jim

 

ACK! I don't have 61 years of kneeling yet.

 

Brothers and Sisters,

The Lord has convicted me that at times portions of my posts have been hostile and not written with enough love in mind. I have asked His forgivness. I apologize especially to deacon jd. I'm sorry.

 

Larryjf: // ... When Jesus talks about jots and tittles
that is clearly not just "meanings"
but the very particulars of the words themselves, ... //

I respectfully disagree. The form of the letters, the letters
themselves, the set of letters called 'word' are not important.
They vary from language to language anyway:
Greek Alphabet, Cyrillic Alphabet, Latin Alphabet (the one
used for the English languages, etc.
What is important is the message that God would have for
us, preferabbly in a language that we understand.

Matthew 5:18 (KJV1611 Edition):
For verily I say vnto you, Till heauen and earth passe,
one iote or one title,
shall in no wise passe from the law,
till all be fulfilled.

The corrected spelling and punctuation is as follows.
Notice that the small comma after 'title' disappeared
and the letter 't' appeared in 'tittle'. But hey,
some say both are the King James Bible (KJB)???

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 5:18 (KJV1769 Edition):
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle
shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.


[/FONT]
The nKJV (damned collectively with other MVs)
follows the exact same words used by the KJV1769;
'JOT' and 'TITTLE'.

Matthew 5:18 (nKJV = The New King James Version):
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away,
one jot or one tittle
will by no means pass from the law
till all is fulfilled.

Matthew5:18 (ESV = English Standard Version):
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not an iota, not a dot,
will pass from the Law
until all is accomplished.

The REAL :godisgood: BIBLE, the HCSB sez:
Matthew 5:18 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter
will pass from the law
until all things are accomplished.

'jot and tittle' are metaphor's for the least detail
of the MEANING God has for us.

 

Ed sed," (quote)

The REAL :godisgood: BIBLE, the HCSB sez:
Matthew 5:18 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away,
not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter
will pass from the law
until all things are accomplished.

'jot and tittle' are metaphor's for the least detail
of the MEANING God has for us.[/quote]

Which of course would make a lot of sense IF YOU WERE A GENTILE!
But Jesus was speaking about the Scriptures to JEWISH people who would immediately understand that He meant exactly what He said. They knew what a 'jot' was or a 'tittle'. The words "not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter" were not uttered by Christ! Therefore Ed is mistaken. Do not let himmislead you, Gentle Reader.

And if YOU do not know what a "jot" or a "tittle" is then you need to "GITCHA SUM LERNIN' CHILD!!!!"

(I kill myself sometimes, ha ha ha ha ha ha!)

 

Did I miss a 'funny'??

Ed

P.S. Somehow you don't seem to strike me as the Judith Martin, aka 'Miss Manners' type!

 

Matthew 5:18 (KJV1769 Edition):
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle
shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.


Matthew5:18 (ESV = English Standard Version):
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away,
not an iota, not a dot,
will pass from the Law
until all is accomplish.

Was Jesus describing elements of Hebrew writing? His spoken words were most likely in Aramaic and were recorded in Greek (what we have).

The ESV has literaly translated the Greek word, while the KJV and others interpretate for the reader what He might have actually said. A little risky, since Jesus and the listeners were familiar with the Greek language, He could have made His point using the ninth Greek letter "iota" and not the tenth Hebrew letter "yodh" at all.

 

I believe the point is that NOTHING was to pass from the law TILL ALL BE FULFILLED. Jesus fulfilled all the sacrificial elements of the law once and for all, but the Decalogue and other laws of worship and everyday conduct will remain in force long as there are mortal men.