The preserved Word of God for ? speaking people.

[Pastor_Bob]

Originally Posted by TomVols
In all seriousness, what do KJVOS believe is the preserved translation for Spanish speakers? French speakers? Most of the time the answer I get is "the KJV translated into ________" (fill in the blank whatever language we are discussing).

How would you answer that question,

I certainly cannot speak for KJVOs across the board, but since you asked how I would answer the question, I would seek the counsel of Missionaries or national pastors who serve in these countries and accept their choice of what they would consider to be the preserved Word of God.

This morning, I spoke to a Missionary friend from Laredo, TX who has a ministry across the border into Mexico. He endorses the 1602 Reina Valera as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people. Of course, this version pre-dates the KJV by 9 years. Upon his recommendation, I, too, would endorse this translation as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people.

Does that mean I believe everyone must learn Spanish to read the preserved Word of God? Absolutely not. That is as absurd as the claim that I believe everyone must learn English in order to read the preserved Word of God.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

I certainly cannot speak for KJVOs across the board, but since you asked how I would answer the question, I would seek the counsel of Missionaries or national pastors who serve in these countries and accept their choice of what they would consider to be the preserved Word of God.

the unproved assumption is that the KJV's the preserved Word in the English.

This morning, I spoke to a Missionary friend from Laredo, TX who has a ministry across the border into Mexico. He endorses the 1602 Reina Valera as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people. Of course, this version pre-dates the KJV by 9 years. Upon his recommendation, I, too, would endorse this translation as being the preserved Word of God for Spanish speaking people.

can't speak for the Spanish, but that's being contradicted in the Chinese-speaking community by KJBOs seeking to overturn the Chinese Union Version w a new TR-based "preserved Word."

Does that mean I believe everyone must learn Spanish to read the preserved Word of God? Absolutely not. That is as absurd as the claim that I believe everyone must learn English in order to read the preserved Word of God.

but why "Absolutely not" n "absurd"?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

the unproved assumption is that the KJV's the preserved Word in the English.

It is not a disproved assumption either.

can't speak for the Spanish, but that's being contradicted in the Chinese-speaking community by KJBOs seeking to overturn the Chinese Union Version w a new TR-based "preserved Word."

I have no knowledge of this yet. I will be speaking to a Chinese Missionary this evening and I will ask him about it.

but why "Absolutely not" n "absurd"?

I feel like you are trying to ask me something here.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

It is not a disproved assumption either.

yes it is, actually (fr a biblical basis).

I have no knowledge of this yet. I will be speaking to a Chinese Missionary this evening and I will ask him about it.

do let us know what u find out.

I feel like you are trying to ask me something here.

i wonder what makes u think so. was it the little question mark at the end?

 

[TCassidy]

I have no knowledge of this yet. I will be speaking to a Chinese Missionary this evening and I will ask him about it.

Bob, you are aware, are you not, that ForeverSettled's native language is Chinese (Mandarin)?

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Bob, you are aware, are you not, that ForeverSettled's native language is Chinese (Mandarin)?

not only that, Bob, but Tom seems to know me better than i know myself!

 

[TCassidy]

not only that, Bob, but Tom seems to know me better than i know myself!

I know quite a lot about you. I did a little research. I know you attended BJ and NU of S, and presently live in my Dad's old home town (although he was born in Ottawa he moved to Toronto when he as 2).

 

[John of Japan]

can't speak for the Spanish, but that's being contradicted in the Chinese-speaking community by KJBOs seeking to overturn the Chinese Union Version w a new TR-based "preserved Word."

Oh come now, "overturn" the UV? That's pretty strong language.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Oh come now, "overturn" the UV? That's pretty strong language.

um, doncha think they wld if they cld?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

do let us know what u find out.

I spoke with BIMI Missionary Kendale Lalman this evening. Kendale has served in China for 12 years, 7 in Changhsha and the last 5 in Beijing. He said that the Chinese Union Version was translated by a Presbyterian in 1909. This is the Bible that he, along with the overwhelming majority of Christians use.

He did say that a TR based Bible was translated by a man he thought was named Morrison, but that it was hastily and poorly translated. He also agreed that there is a movement for another translation at this time.

I fail to see the relevance in making the statement that I believe the KJV is the preserved Word of God for English speaking people and clearing referring only to English speaking people.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Pastor_Bob: //I would seek the counsel of Missionaries
or national pastors
who serve in these countries and accept their choice
of what they would consider to be the preserved Word of God.//

Amen, Brother Pastor_Bob -- Preach it!

1. I asked (via internet) my national Pastor in the City/Nation
of Singapore what was the preserved Word of God
for Singaporians. He said: New International
Version (NIV)

2. I asked a missionary to Renassance Fair
actors, Shakespearian players, and Jacobian Era speakers.
Her answer is: The KJV1611 Edition* is the preserved Word
of God. (*note: original Gothic format type only )

3. I asked a national Pastor (Southern Baptist)
and Missionary to 21st century (2001-2100) Oklahomans.
He says the Written Word of God is preserved in
the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) of 2003.


Yes, friends, the miracle of Godly preservation of
His Holy Written Word is found in each of the
original language documents and in
each of the faithful translations.

 

[John of Japan]

um, doncha think they wld if they cld?

Weeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllll. (Insert deeply thinking Japanese smiley.)

 

[John of Japan]

As to which Japanese Bible is the preserved Word of God, this depends on your presuppositions, as does your decision on which Bible (or Bibles) in any language is the preserved Word of God.

(1) If one believes that the KJV is inspired and inerrant, and that you should correct the Greek and Hebrew from it, then you will only be satisfied with a Bible in the language translated from the KJV. The only problem is that sometimes such versions are not nearly as good as the others. (Sometimes better, though, of course.) Here in Japan, the first complete Japanese Bible was the Motoyaku ("Original Translation"), which was translated from the KJV. Has it been preserved? No. It has been out of print since about 1920, because it had many errors and was replaced by a much better version (though alas, one from Nestle's in the NT). I looked in used book stores for four years before I found a Motoyaku NT.

(2) If one believes that the TR can be the only basis for God's Word for a language, he will choose a TR-based translation. In Japanese there has only been one of those, a NT-only (no OT) translation by a scholar named Nagai in the 1920's. It was done in classical Japanese, though, so even if it were still in print it would not be the Bible I would choose for my church. Only a few of my people would be able to read it with understanding.

(3) If one believes that (even preferring the TR) the nature of the translation and how faithful it is to the original languages is far more important than what text type the source language text was, then he will examine the available Bibles and make his choice based on translation method and accuracy. In Japan, this is the Shinkaiyaku, used by almost all Fundamental churches and most conservative evangelical ones. It is based on the English NASV translation method and does have some poor renderings, but it is the best available.

The thing is, if you choose #3 as your presupposition, your church can turn out very similar in beliefs to a church in the homeland which uses only the KJV--with the exception of the doctrine of preservation, which is completely not an issue in the Japanese churches at present.

Note that #3 is based on the belief that I have that God has given Man the task of preserving His Word on earth--which is not to say that He doesn't preserve His Word, of course.:type:

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Weeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllll. (Insert deeply thinking Japanese smiley.)

fwiw, this statement at D.A. Waite's site might be helpful:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][FONT=¿¬Ìå][FONT=¿¬Ìå]也 正由于译者所持的正确神学和他们敬畏神的态度，神的话和正确的教义才得以传递到众华人教会中去，使今天大陆大部分基督徒还能够在神的话这块坚固的盘石上向 下扎根，向上结果。但《和合本》由于采用了错漏的原文版本，这个先天缺陷，因此一些错译，错加和漏译多多少少会对一些教义造成非常严重的影响。[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/ForeignBibles/chinese_bible.htm

 

[John of Japan]

fwiw, this statement at D.A. Waite's site might be helpful:

http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/ForeignBibles/chinese_bible.htm

FYI, I read Chinese through a Japanese kanji lens with some knowledge of Chinese grammar--so I admit I don't catch it sometimes. Anyway, in the statement you quoted I didn't see a character meaning "topple" in there with the 和合本 as its direct object. So, am I missing something?

 

[mcdirector]

fwiw, this statement at D.A. Waite's site might be helpful:
也 正由于译者所持的正确神学和他们敬畏神的态度，神的话和正确的教义才得以传递到众华人教会中去，使今天大陆 大部分基督徒还能够在神的话这块坚固的盘石上向 下扎根，向上结果。但《和合本》由于采用了错漏的原文版本，这个先天缺陷，因此一些错译，错加和漏译多多少 少会对一些教义造成非常严重的影响。


http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/ForeignBibles/chinese_bible.htm

that one made me smile

 

[Su Wei]

1. I asked (via internet) my national Pastor in the City/Nation
of Singapore what was the preserved Word of God
for Singaporians. He said: New International
Version (NIV)

Bro Ed, as one of the few singaporeans contributing on this board, I have to say: me thinks not!!! Me thinks he (or you?) overstated things. I would agree if he said that a majority of Christians in Singapore use the NIV but to say that Singaporeans take the NIV as the PRESERVED word of God, i can't agree. I don't think most christians (as in churched folks) even know this whole issue about the preservation of God's word.

 

[Su Wei]

fwiw, this statement at D.A. Waite's site might be helpful:



http://www.deanburgonsociety.org/ForeignBibles/chinese_bible.htm

thank you for that link! :thumbsup: I've got alot to learn but i support a chinese bible that is TR based. Anything else will come up short. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Su Wei]

um, doncha think they wld if they cld?

Just to clarify, what did you mean by 'overturn'?

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Just to clarify, what did you mean by 'overturn'?

u're welcome on the quote/link!

by overturn i mean to overthrow what's the currently preserved Word of God by labelling it a PERversion or corruption or somesuch insinuation. evidence of this is not wanting in the publications of Mrs "Dr" God-And Riplinger, Peter Ruckman, D.A. Waite, David Cloud, Jack Chick, et al.

there are many underhanded tactics currently employed to make non-TR or non-KJB versions look bad, n it seems that the CUV n other non-English Bibles won't be spared, if the KJBOs get their way.

but u're so right that the NIV cannot be said to be the preserved Word for Singaporeans--esp if most Singaporeans (incl many Christians) aren't really Christ's disciples to begin with. my guess is that job stability, academic success, social acceptance, etc., are far gter considerations in S'porean minds than, say, a theological n personal understanding of the Book of Job. the NIV, as u've correctly pointed out, is probably the most prevalent among the churches in S'pore.