The Rapture and the Church in Revelation

At the right hand of the Father I suppose.

 

Grasshopper,

Yeah? which in heaven OR on earth?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen

 

In the spiritual realm. Understand I do not believe He is literally sitting at the right hand of the Father. I believe it just indicates a position of Power and authority.

I guess I believe He rules in the spirit world on earth and heaven. Haven't really thought much about it.

 

WHOA!!!!!!! You don't believe it??? Acts 7:55-56 tell us, while Stephen was stone to death, Stephen said, he saw up in the heaven, and he said, Jesus standing on the RIGHT HAND of God. Obivously! Jesus is right now sitting on the throne at the RIGHT HAND of God in the heaven!

There are so MANY verses in the New Testament telling us, Christ is NOW sitting on the right hand of God in heaven. Yes, I believe it is literally. Accept what the Bible saying so. Believe it.

Guess????? You can't do that. Where is your confidence? You seems not have confidence in what the Bible teaches us.

Now, I am ask you,

WHERE is Jesus in physical right now????

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Well is He standing or sitting?

I was under the impression that Jesus was omnipresent. So you do not believe Christ is in the hearts of believers?

You see how foolish this can get when you take all things to be literal?

My hesitation is not due to the fact of where Jesus is positionaly. You limit God to much. You try to force Him into your physical realm.

I'm not sure heaven is as much a place as an existence in the spiritual realm. It is given physical attributes so physical beings like us can in some limited way understand it. The Kingdom of God is within us. You cannot put it into a physical realm. You see, I have many questions I don't know the answers too. But I do not limit God to time and space diminsions.

 

Yes, Jesus is omnipresence. He is everywhere at the same time.

Understand, Jesus is in the heaven right now. Christ sent the Holy Spirit down to dwell in Christians' body, as the Holy Spirit guides us.

I do not limited God.

God is unlimited. God is omniscience, omnipotent, and omnipresence.

God is spirit. Christ was spirit during Old Testament, but now, Christ have physical, because He came to earth to became man for us. He rose from the buried physically. Disciples already saw Christ in physical, not just a 'ghost'. Christ asked Timothy, to touch his hands. Christ proved to them, that He is alive and physical.

Disciples saw Christ ascend back to heaven in physcially. SO, therefore, when Christ comes again, His coming shall be physically too.

No person on earth yet see Christ coming in physical - Matt 24:30 & Rev. 1:7.

His coming shall not be a secert and quiet. His coming shall be visibly and NOISY - 2 Peter 3:10.

Do we already see the new heavens and a new earth, yet???

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

New Heavens and the New Earth is a metephor for the New Covenant. Yes, we live in the new heavens and the new earth.

We need our own private board.

 

Grasshopper, don't you believe there will be literal new heavens and a new earth in physical?

How about the situation in Haiti right now? Are we in a perfect earth now?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

No.

Perfection is now in the spiritual realm, I believe this is what is foretold of. No more curse of the Law, no more death brought on by the law, that "heaven and earth" has passed away.

Here is what I believe is describing the end of the old heavens and earth(Old Covenant)

Rev 19:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

This is why I'm a full Preterist. You have the resurrection and judgement at the end of the Old Covenant.

Now the New Covenant begins:

Revelation 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more.
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven of God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God:
4 and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.

I don't pretend to understand it all, but it does, after an awful lot of study, make sense to me. The new heaven and new earth sure seem like a descrition of the church.

 

2 Peter 3:10,12-13 telling us, this old earth shall be destroyed with fire - literally.

Rev. 21:1-4 will be fulfilled - literally with physical.

By the way, the new covenant speaks of our spiritual promise - salvation through the Calvary. New Covenant is not relate with new heavens and new earth. New covenant relates with salvation.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

We disagree.

 

Grasshopper,

Was the flood destroyed earth literally?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

No, but the people, nations and governments were.

 

God said, "I will cause it to RAINupon the earth forty days and forty nights; and EVERY living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." - Gen. 7:4- God's promise already fulfilled 120 years later.

"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were ALL the foundation of the great deep broken up, and the WINDOWS OF HEAVEN WERE OPENED and the rain was upon teh earth forty days and forty nights." - Genesis 7:11-12

"And the water prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and ALLLLLLL the high hills, that were UNDER the whole heaven, were covered." - Gen. 7:19

"And ALLLL flesh DIED that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and EVERY man of life, of ALLLLL that was in the dry land, DIED And EVERY living substance was DESTROYED which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." - Gen. 7:21-23 include read verse 24 too.

It is clear telling us, flood was literally destroyed the world, flood covered WHOLE land of the earth. All animals and people were killed - literally.

Three years ago, I went to New Mexico. I went to camping in the mountian. While hiking in the mountian. I saw many rocks there, several rockes are lava. But, I was shocked to see rock covers with SALT!!!!! I told to a missionary who was with me, that rock was come from the flood! He agreed with me.

If you don't believe me. Do you want me to show the same rock to you, that I found it three years ago?

Amazing! Rock covers with salt lies on the mountian in New Mexico is about 300 to 400 miles away from Pacific Ocean! It must be come from flood!!

I keep it, because of evidence from flood.

So, therefore, the old earth shall be burned away - literally!!!

So, we are looking forward for new heavens and a new earth literally - 2 Peter 3:12-13!

Aren't you looking forward for it?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

I have no problem with that.

That's alright, I don't think looking at a rock will change my preterist position.

Does salt only come from the oceans? I saw salt deposits in Colorado while hiking. I'm not a geologist so I will defer to someone else on this matter.

You have just proved my point. When the bible speaks of world in this usage, it speaks of the inhabitants, not the "kosmos". Do a word study on "world" and see what you come up with. Many times it refers to a certain land, not planet earth.

I'm living it, and so are you.

 

C.H. Spurgeon (1865)
"Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and we now live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it." (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, vol. xxxvii, p. 354).

 

Grasshopper,

Are you satisfy with this present world condition? Look at the world is filled with sins and wicked today. Isn't this earth a new and perfect peace conditional now??

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Do you not read my responses? You keep asking the same questions.

 

Preterists believe Jesus already arrive at the second coming, as all prophecies already fulfilled in year 70 A.D.

How about the physical resurrection of the saints??

Do you see any saint get rise from the grave already?

Where is the victory? Many Christians are died daily throughout centuries to today.

Has resurrection already occured yet? - 2 Tim. 2:18

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

No, but the people, nations and governments were. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry to bud in, but what do you mean, no? Did you read the Bible to get this answer? Also, we are not in a new heaven and a new earth. This earth will burn up first.