Featured The Reason why Calvinists and Arminians cannot agree

Lets be honest....If God himself provided you scripture to support Calvinistic Doctrine.....you wouldnt believe it so quit blowing smoke up peoples skirts OK? You have an agenda & its painfully evident your trying to push it.

& gee thanks for allowing me the opportunity to post.....thats really nice! :laugh:

 

Anyway this is Baptist Bible Study & Theology ....not discussion. Start a bible study.

 

You are implying that all things, all thoughts are predestined. I don't believe that. I don't believe the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace teach that.

I had a thread earlier in which I stated:

Some took exception to the way I stated my belief about Salvation. Whether you believe in libertarian free will or not is irrelevant if the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace are true!

 

Here is some reliant scripture (perfect for a Bible Study)

Matthew 13:24-30 (King James Version)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

That is not true. I have changed my views over the years. I once believed and even taught my children Original Sin. I believed it because that is what I had been taught, and it seemed to fit reality. It explained why everyone sins, including little children.

But over the years as I read and studied scripture I saw much scripture that simply did not mesh with Original Sin, in fact it seemed to utterly contradict it. The 15th chapter of Luke probably had a greater influence on me than any other scripture. I noted that in all three stories that Jesus told, no one was originally lost. The shepherd had 100 sheep, one went out and became lost, the shepherd searched and recovered it. Then Jesus explained this one lost sheep was a sinner who repented. He then told a story of a woman with ten silver coins, she lost one, searched and recovered it. Again, Jesus explained this was a lost sinner who repented. But the coin was not originally lost.

Then Jesus told the story of the prodigal son. He was not lost originally, he was at home with his father. He willingly left home and went out in sin and became lost. When he repented, twice Jesus said he was alive AGAIN.

Now, you may read right over that word "again", but I cannot. This did not agree with Original Sin whatsoever. I had been taught we are all born dead in sin separated from God because of Adam's sin. That is not what these 3 stories showed at all. They all showed a person as not originally lost, but becoming lost after being born.

After this I saw many other scriptures that did not agree with Original Sin like Rom 7:9-11, or 1 Pet 2:25. However, these scriptures made perfect sense if Original Sin was not true.

It took me several years of study, but I became thoroughly convinced (and still am) that OS is absolutely false doctrine. I could never believe this again.

You may not believe this, but I simply want to know the truth. I don't want to know man's interpretation of scripture, and I do not want to form my own interpretation of scripture. I want to know GOD'S INTERPRETATION of scripture. Nearly every night for many years I have prayed that God would reveal the truth to me and keep me from error.

You may think me some sort of maverick, nothing can be further from the truth. I simply want to know what scripture says. I go where I believe God and the Holy Spirit through the word of God leads me. This is not easy, you get accused of being a heretic, divisive, etc... That's OK, I knew that would be the case.

If you, or any Calvinist could prove to me from scripture that Calvinism was true, I would believe it. I simply have never seen this, in fact, the more I study scripture, the more convinced I am that Calvinism is serious error.

If that offends you, I am sorry.

 

OR... I have been stating that for at least a year but it always gets ignored (wonder why)

 

Nope.... doesnt offend me at all....no skin off my nose.

May I ask a personal question.....have you been able to find a Church that holds to your views (you dont have to answer....just that Im very curious)

 

Oh & Im not a Calvinist. Total Calvinist followers walk lock step with the Reformed & Presbyterian Churches. I am a Baptist.

 

Well, when I joined my church, which is a pretty standard KJV only IFB church, I told the Pastor and deacons my view on Original Sin. I presented all the scripture I had learned over the years that I believe refutes it. My Pastor and deacons said that I presented a very convincing case against OS.

They did seem concerned I was some sort of Pelagian. They asked me if I believed a man could earn or merit salvation. I told them no, and that is the truth. I believe all men when they understand right from wrong will choose to sin at some point in their life and become lost. In fact I think this occurs very early in life for all men. So, no one can be saved except by trusting in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. The language of our SOF actually seemed to imply the very thing I said, so I was accepted.

You may not know this, but many Christians have rejected OS over the history of the church. The Eastern Orthodox Church has never agree with Augustine's theory of OS. John Smyth, the man credited with starting the first Baptist church did not believe in OS.

Truth is, the original Baptists did not believe in OS. You are the folks that have strayed from the faith.

 

Some people cannot hear anything that is contrary to their preconceived beliefs.

 

According to many Calvinistic thinkers that is exactly what they believe. Most Calvinists deny even the possibility of LFW, which leaves the only alternative that God has sovereignly 'ordained whatsoever comes to pass' (a quote from the Westminster Confession of faith). Now how else would you explain why some of God's children believe Calvinistically and other do not?

 

They won't listen!

 

I can't help what Calvinists believe. I believe in the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace. I have said for years that I am not a Calvinist. I have never read anything that Calvin wrote!

 

Predestination tells us that His people will be "conformed to the image of his son."This is where people get very confused....even the Calvinists. God did not predestine all things that transpire but He did predestine all whom He foreknew. So Predestination is only concerned with the destiny of the elect. Therefore Predestination is always about 'people' not 'events'

 

Why the countless threads ad nausem on Calvinism vs free will??? There are several reasons. The main one is neither side is privy to the inner workings of the mind of the Lord. Both sides manipulate verses to fit their opinion. Both sides consider their opinion of Scripture as the true meaning of Scripture. Neither side has a clue what they are talking about.

In these threads, we have people with advanced degrees in theology having knock down drag outs with others who have advanced degrees in the same area. That sure is a lot of time and money to make post after post in these threads that is like a hampster in a wheel.

The Lord reading these threads has to be our equivilant of watching the Comedy Channel.

 

SM,
This is exactly where it starts and finishes.This is the testimony of scripture that cannot be overturned.

Unless a man be born from above......HE CANNOT...enter..CANNOT as in not a believer...not possible...still dead in sin...still outside the Kingdom.

Very clear....:wavey::wavey: