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Featured The Redundancy of Satan in Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Bluefalcon, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Bluefalcon

    Bluefalcon Member

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    The Redundancy of Satan in Calvinism

    By Leighton Flowers


    From the article:

    Calvinism’s doctrine of Total Inability suggests that all people are born as “spiritual corpses,” morally unable to see, hear, understand and repent even in response to God’s own inspired truth. But this seems contradictory to what some leading Calvinists teach regarding the impact Satan has in our world.

    For example, in an article titled, “Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You,” Calvinistic Pastor, John Piper, mentions this about the the great deceiver, Satan:

    “1) He blinds the minds of unbelievers.

    “The god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ” (2 Corinthians 4:4). So he not only speaks what is false. He hides what is true. He keeps us from seeing the treasure of the gospel. He lets us see facts, even proofs, but not preciousness.

    2) Satan plucks the word of God out of people’s hearts and chokes faith.

    Jesus told the parable of the four soils in Mark 4:1–9. In it, the seed of the word of God is sown, and some falls on the path and birds quickly take it away. He explains in verse 15, “Satan immediately comes and takes away the word which was sown in them.” Satan snatches the word because he hates faith which the word produces (Romans 10:17).

    Paul expresses his concern for the faith of the Thessalonians like this: “I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain” (1 Thessalonians 3:5). Paul knew that Satan’s design is to choke off the faith of people who have heard the word of God.”

    Does this effort of Satan strike anyone as being completely unnecessary if the claims of Calvinism are true regarding man’s Total Inability from birth?

    If we are born completely unable to see, hear, understand or respond willingly to the word of God, as the doctrine of Total Inability suggests, wouldn’t Satan’s work to blind people and snatch away the word be completely unnecessary and redundant?

    Imagine visiting your local cemetery and discovering they hired a person to put blind folds and ear plugs on the corpses lest they respond willingly to the sights and sounds around the graveyard. Would this strike you as peculiar? . . .​
     
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  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    It's always good to think, question, and challenge our own views, and the views of others. We should always seek a better understanding of scripture and challenge others to do the same.

    Rather than use Piper's word's, here is the text in question, which @Reformed had already brought to our attention in another thread on the same subject.

    Ephesians 2:1-2 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.​

    It's plain to see from the text that unregenerate men are both "dead" and yet "walk", and they are walking "according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience." They are marching in step with the orders of the evil one. He controls them.
     
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  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "Oh I remember being in control by the devil and ZAP i got regenerated" --Said No Calvinist Ever.


    Honest and Sincere folks would handle situation a little bit more like the matrix rather then a peer pressure, conformity, tell folks what they want to hear, reverse witch hunt.
     
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    Says no man; however, God's word reveals the reality that the spiritually dead are unaware.

    Ephesians 2:1-2 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Flowers has convoluted the work of Satan as showing the Calvinistic thinking unnecessary.

    Rather, it is because of the work of Satan that the Calvinistic thinking is correct.

    People do not respond, for even though light is presented they turn away. This is the presentation of John. People hate light therefore they turn away. The light doesn’t cause them to turn away, they are already hate filled and by the nature of that which they are, such cannot embrace the light for they have no desire no will to accept the light.

    As 2 Corinthians states:
    1Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake. 6For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.​



    Although the Word is spread as seed, Satan, as a flock of birds descends to consume what is not planted in good earth.

    The Word of Life cannot be sustained in the stones, the shallow the paths, the places other then the prepared ground.

    Flowers ignores the one who owns the field, the stones, the path, the shallow soil, ....

    He ignores that the owner is the one who determines the nutrients of the soil, the preparations of that field, and just where and when of the harvest.

    Flowers has drifted from the truth not because of the convincing of Scripture, but because (as Hebrews 2) of not really paying attention to discern the ministering angelic authority.
     
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  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Brian if it were true, no scripture needed, your direct personal experience is proof. But you don't tell me that story do you?

    You don't tell me you get mindwiped. Its so little a big deal. Or are you still waiting on your point of regeneration?

    In fact the whole ordeal of convincing someone else otherwise would be a joke to you being you remember how you were under that evil control and how only God got you out of it.


    I know when someone is being sincere or not, and when someone is just saying what other folks want to hear.

    Your "STORY" needs work.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God got me saved out of the Kingdom of satan, so if He does not do that, who does?
     
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  8. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    He rescues us. He frees us. He saves us. These are the terms used to describe His work, and these terms all help us understand the condition we were in. We could not provide for ourselves what He only He could.
     
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  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Three redemptions are presented in the NT.

    1) a slave purchased from the slavery market
    2) that slave taken off our out of the slave market so as never available to be again sold as a slave.
    3) that slave adopted as an full heir with all rights and privelages as an heir.

    This is the work as presented in the NT.

    Rescues, frees, saves are also good words.
     
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  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I don't need scripture to prove what I PERSONALLY FEEL AND UNDERSTAND concerning God.

    There is a story missing from our self-proclaimed elect brethren, that evil controlled them and how only God got you out of it.

    Did they need to hear the entire bible and few days later God pressed a button. Did they only hear part of it, one line.

    The claim being thrown is they were under the control of the devil previously, but have nothing to express of any switch actually happening.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    not a cal but there is scripture to back up the claim.

    1 John 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

    at one time we were dead.

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    why?

    Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--

    HankD
     
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Leighton Flowers misses the truth once again....He opposes himself as he turns from the truth of God.
     
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  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The testimony would be way huge, compared to typical stuff you hear.

    According to Cals, you are still under control of the devil. But you will be regenerated after hearing the gospel and you will be a Calvinist provided you were elect to be regenerated.

    So anyone who is non-cal absolutely has no idea what the gospel talking about, only his sheep hear his voice. At best your just a reprobate animal doing tricks.

    Like our buddy here puts it the "spiritually dead are unaware"

    The problem I got is Brian just doesn't tell us about any change he went through, instead he just points to particular take on scripture.

    Between all us, he's the only one not spiritually dead, He's self-proclaimed Elect. And thats fine, so I'm saying:
    I don't need scripture to prove what I PERSONALLY FEEL AND UNDERSTAND concerning God.

    If its a true story show how it happened, No instead he points to scripture on how he THINKS its SUPPOSE to happen.
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Oh so there is a possibility that YOU can turn from the truth of God as well?
     
  15. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    Why not take your post to heart? Come on in. The water's fine.
     
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    You are "preaching to the choir" brother brian :)

    I once was dead in sin, then heard the gospel.

    Then 1) believed and was regenerated or 2) was regenerated and believed or 3) something else.

    Doesn't matter because of the present tense effect : I love God and the brethren.

    1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

    HankD
     
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  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Just read the parable of the sower it's obvious that three out of the four different hearers turn from truth
     
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    If we can agree that we will one day see the King of Kings with scars on His hands and side and lay down our crowns at His feet, and praise Him for saving wretched sinners like us, we will be singing in the same choir.
     
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  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    I actually heard a "sermon" on the parable of the Sower in which the pastor was instructing the congregation regarding how they could change the type of soil they were. There were 5 steps to change from rocky to good soil.

    Now, we all know that soil cant change itself and that the parable gives absolutely no evidence it can either, but that doesn't stop these overly zealous, ignorant preachers from coming up with some "application" for us.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    We have one on here who "helps out"in the same way.lol
     
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