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Featured The Resurrection of Abraham and the Millennial Reign of Christ???

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JD731, Jan 26, 2024.

  1. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What if Abraham is resurrected from the dead only to find out that God did not really mean what he said in his promises to him concerning his family, the land of promise, Palestine, and a Seed through whom all the families of the world will be blessed?

    What if the Amils and general resurrectionists and those who teach an eternity without an earth are right? Could any of us today really depend on the promises God has made to us, many of which depends on our own resurrection and bodily glorification?

    Psa 105:6 O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
    7 He is the Lord our God: his judgments are in all the earth.
    8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
    9 Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
    10 And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:
    11 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance:
    12 When they were but a few men in number; yea, very few, and strangers in it.
    13 When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people;
    14 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes;
    15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

    Psa 102:12 But thou, O Lord, shall endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.
    13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.
    14 For thy servants take pleasure in her stones, and favour the dust thereof.
    15 So the heathen shall fear the name of the Lord, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.
    16 When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I agree, when the literal sense of God's promises make sense, we should trust in that literal sense.

    As an aside, I have thought I understood something, but later in the light of additional information, I upgraded my understand to better reflect reality. :)
     
  3. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1) "Eternity without an earth?" When Christ Jesus returns, He will eliminate this present heavens and earth and replace it the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.

    2 Peter 3:10-13 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    2) The gospel, the entire Bible, is ALL about the finished salvation that Christ Jesus accomplished as the Surety of those God chose before the beginning of the world and gave to His Son. It is not about a patch of dirt next to the Mediterranean Sea, or any other patch of dirt on this earth, except as it was a means God used to bring His Son into this world in sinless flesh to fulfill the law perfectly and to die as an offering for God's elect. The book of Galatians is quite instructive in the matter.

    Galatians 3:7-9 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
     
  4. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Me too.
     
  5. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    The Seed through Whom all the families of the earth are blessed is the Lord Jesus Christ. See Galatians.
     
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  6. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if Abraham is resurrected from the dead and he finds a world like the amils propose. What will he think? Suppose he is now in a glorified body and he is destined to live forever. Will he ask God every day, maybe every morning, about that land that he was promised in an unconditional covenant to him and his physical offspring? What will God say to him? Will he say. Abraham, you just missed the point? I was not intending to be literal in my promise to you. you are not really going to inherit the land grant.

    Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
    Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

    He came to Herod's temple at his first coming but not suddenly. He is coming to his temple at his second coming. This is the Lord of Hosts speaking. Hosts are armies and this is a title for Jesus Christ in the OT.

    2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:
    3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

    4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
    5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
    6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    They are not consumed because God has an everlasting covenant with them. Every thing God has done in the world since he made that covenant with Abraham has been in view of keeping every word of it, and he will because God is faithful and cannot lie.

    Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    I listened on youtube today to a false prophet who says all the promises of God are spiritual.
     
  7. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    There are two days in your quotes. The day of the Lord, which is the one thousand year day, the sabbath and the end of the week. The day of God, the eighth day, and eternal day that will never end. The eighth day in the scriptures is the day of new things and new beginnings. The day of God is the day after the sabbath. Nothing will ever get old if the day is eternal and never ends. They will always be new.

    Who do you think will dwell on this new earth?

    Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
    2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

    It seems appropriate to me that on the first day of the week when all things become new we will see the resurrection of Jesus and before the day is out we see the apostles and elders become the first to receive the new birth.

    Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

    21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
    22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
    23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
     
    #7 JD731, Jan 26, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2024
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Eight Day?

    [​IMG]
     
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God's elect whom He gave to His Son before the world began, to be their Surety, and to fulfill the law the perfectly, and die as an offering once to perfect God's elect forever, as their sins were imputed to Him and He paid their sin debt, and His perfect righteousness was imputed to them.
     
  10. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    JD731 said:
    Who do you think will dwell on this new earth?


    That does not feel like an answer to the question but I would like to read about that in scripture. Where do I find it?

    Think about this; if God is not going to keep his covenant promises to Abraham, according to you, promises that are spelled out clearly and precisely, why do you think he will keep a promise to you that I cannot even find anywhere in the scriptures.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 3:8-9 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

    Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    (emphasis mine)
     
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  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    What is your point and how does these verses modify the Abrahamic Covenant and the promises to him of the family, a land, and a throne?

    The very first thing that is recorded in the scriptures to the nations concerning the dealing of God with the nations is in the first line of the first sentence one comes to in what God has written to the gentiles. The nations, the heathen, and the gentiles are one and the same.

    Check this out:

    Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures)
    3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

    Now we have hit snag here for you because you do not believe in the obedience of Faith, but Paul does.

    Here is the nutshell Bible definition of the gospel (good news, glad tidings) of God.

    Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you (gentile nations in context) according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
    26 But now is made manifest (the mystery of the gospel of God), and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    God is not just asking sinners to believe the gospel of God, which includes the gospel of Jesus Christ, he is commanding it.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you don't understand those verses that I quoted is proof that you do not understand the promise to Abraham that all nations would be blessed through his seed - Christ Jesus, nor do you understand the new heavens and earth that God has promised to His elect.

    Yes, I do.
     
  14. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Romans 11:33–36 (NASB 2020): Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For Who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or Who has first given to Him, that it would be paid back to him? For from Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.​

    Are you really asking if we can we depend upon God ?

    Our expectations may be faulty. Our theology lacking but…

    God will exceed any expectations of glory anyone might have.

    Rob
     
  15. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    I typically assume the Reformed do not understand my commentary. This is the reason I provide enough scripture so they can understand my point and more often than not, not just a single verse, but enough to establish context. Context is our friend.

    You are saying I do not understand and so it is your burden to present a cogent argument for your theology that does not have a resurrected man and his family having to ask God why he has forgotten about an everlasting covenant in which he was promised he would occupy the land of Palestine forever under the reign of an everlasting King on the throne of David.

    My view is that you are taught to not believe words like "for ever" and "everlasting" but you are taught to believe a system and to make the scriptures conform to it. This is a horrible way to approach the scriptures.

    I actually do understand this. But it does not disannul the Abrahamic covenant and it says so in the very text of Galatians 3 that you are referencing.

    Later I will post a thread so we can discuss Ga 3.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I have no such burden as your premise is badly flawed.
     
    #16 KenH, Jan 27, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2024
  17. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The theology of Reformed amil is figurative in all places except the ones that is necessary to advance their adopted theological system. My advice to them is to submit to the words of the scriptures and allow them to mean what they say unless the context allows for spiritualizing.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I am not on this board to try to convince anyone of anything concerning the gospel of God's sovereign grace and mercy in Christ Jesus my Lord. If I were to convince someone of something, then someone else could come along and unconvince him. I desire to proclaim the true gospel of God's sovereign grace and mercy in Christ Jesus my Lord on this board, so that if any of God's elect might read what I write on this board, that they might be encouraged by something I may have written to delve more deeply into God's Word and, if the Holy Spirit has already regenerated them through the proclamation of the gospel of Christ Jesus, they might be encouraged in their walk, or if they have not yet been regenerated, that perhaps the Holy Spirit will bless my feeble efforts to direct such an unregenerated one of God's elect to delve more deeply into God's Word, seek out faithful gospel preachers of God's sovereign grace and mercy in Christ Jesus, and through the preaching of the Word of God, that they will be regenerated and granted the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus my Lord.
     
  19. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    There is no such Bible doctrine as sovereign grace. If you convince anyone of such a doctrine then you have led them into error.
     
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  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    As I wrote, I am not trying to convince anyone. The Holy Spirit is the one who regenerates God's elect.
     
  21. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    The character of the millennial reign of Christ.

    Isa 2:1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

    2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house (his family) shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. (Mountain is a metaphor for a strong nation and hill is metaphor for a lesser nation)

    3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

    This is a wonderful prophecy concerning Judah and Jerusalem that never has been true on the earth, but is very close in our day to be realized. I suspect it will come to pass during our generation. The seat of government for the whole world will be Mt Zion in Jerusalem.


    The beginning of the mellinnial reign
    Mt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (see Re 19 here):
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


    Re 20:
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    The end of the mellinnial reign
    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city (Jerusalem, the seat of God's earthly government during the 1000 years): and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
     
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