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Featured The Root...of Doctrinal Apostasy...what is that?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, May 26, 2018.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In another thread this term was used and misunderstood by a reader....
    let's sort this out.....

    What is Apostasy? what does that term signify?

    What is Doctrinal Apostasy?

    is it the same as personal Apostasy from the faith?

    What would be meant by...."the root" of doctrinal apostasy?

    Here is a helpful article...some things to consider;
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...s-apostasy-a-biblical-definition-of-apostasy/
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  3. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    That's a pretty good study on apostasy, to be sure.

    But I'm a little shocked at the venue. I have all but quit following patheos...too much apostasy.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I consider modern religion to be apostate. Why because it does not view God as sovereign over man...rather it is man is the one that makes the choice to get saved. :Rolleyes
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    One of the earliest roots of doctrinal apostasy was Satan suggesting.....has God said?
     
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  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    #6 Iconoclast, May 27, 2018
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I believe doctrinal apostasy exists throughout Christendom in the form of sectarianism and denominationalism. I believe all denominations revolve around the doctrinal errors that divide them from the rest of the body of Christ.

    But, to my advantage, I’ve overlooked the divisions and have learned from many what I would not have learned being locked into one persuasion.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Dave... doesn’t orthodox Trinitarian Christianity take you into true understanding? Then there are Doctrines ( of trinity, of grace ) that are true Christian teaching. Then gospel learning via study. If we did not have an Athenaious (sp?) to wrestle with this we would have become disciples of Aerius; w/o Augustine we would all fall into Pelegian heresy .... so getting along?!? :rolleyes:
     
    #8 Earth Wind and Fire, May 27, 2018
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Blarney. “Repent and be baptized” says that only ‘adults’ should be baptized. “Whole households” and traditions starting with the Early Church Fathers suggest that ‘babies’ should be baptized into the covenant. Those who hold strongly to each belief SHOULD separate into distinct denominations and it has nothing to do with either being in error or apostasy. It is more of a Romans 14:5 situation.
     
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  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    It's like I say, denominations separate and revolve around the errors that divide them from the body of Christ.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is like I say, denominationalism and sectarianism revolves around the errors that divide them from the rest of the body of Christ. But they all hold truths in common with the rest of the body.
     
    #11 1689Dave, May 27, 2018
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes no.... for example, JW’s and Unitarians do not believe in the Trinity
     
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If the above is, in fact, the case then you are in the Baptist Only section of the forum under false pretenses.
     
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Good point. Division is good. In fact, it is commanded. Division divides truth from error. Division divides right from wrong. Division divides faith from apostasy.
     
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  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Since when are "Baptists" a denomination? Divisive sects within? Yes, you can label yourself however you like.
     
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  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think the ecumenical creeds speak for the majority of Christendom to which I relate.
     
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The question is not how I label myself. The question is how do you label yourself.

    Are you a Baptist? Yes or No.

    Do you attend a Baptist church? Yes or No.

    Do you accept the Baptist Distinctives? Yes or No.
     
  18. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    While that may be true, there is no getting around denominations or sectarianism. I do not want to put words in @atpollard 's mouth but some doctrinal differences are so pronounced that they create competition and not cooperation. Competition is not a good attribute to find in a local church. That is one reason why Christians have separated themselves into like-minded groups. Regrettable but necessary.
     
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  19. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I posted this in another thread that may be inline with the OP,

    I have just found these verses that have helped form my perspective. I have been wrestling with this issue for a long time and I have been doing a ton of research. I thank you for the opportunity to discuss them.

    Romans 16:17-18
    17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

    While I have long been concerned about Jesus' prayer that Believers be one as he and the Father are one. I must say that this single section of scripture explains why it is ultimately dangerous to stress unity in the church with those who preach and practice a different Gospel than you understand yourself to be under. If you find your church is reading the bible in an alien way to you, it would seem best to bring things up with a pastor for discussion. Then to leave if it turns out you do have huge differences concerning the Gospel that will not be bridged.

    Albert Mohler puts it well when he says that past issues of a different Gospel, there are issues of ecclesiology that can still divide and force people into different churches. One such issue near and dear to us is baptism. I for one would be unlikely to ever join a church which urges parents to baptize their children.

    The problem here is that differences of Gospel and ecclesiology abound in the Christian faith.

    However, we should certainly pursue a unity that transcends things like paint color of the sanctuary, types of carpet pattern for the church, and the musical genre of worship music. These kinds of divisions do destroy churches as far as I have heard. Those that do so face rebuke and discipline from God. That said, the real problem for me to be in unity with most in the Christian faith, with the vast, vast majority of those that proclaim themselves Christian; are differences in the type of Gospel given. In addition to core ecclesiological differences that would make me feel uncomfortable to join such churches.

    Here I speak of the RCC, Eastern Orthodox Church, Mainline denominations, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Science, Mormons, and Charismatic denominations and churches. There is simply no chance I would unite with such movements as they seem counter to the bible's teachings. They all have a different Gospel to the one I understand or an ecclesiology that is counter to what I think the bible teaches.

    But, given evangelical culture's inroads to unity with the "global church," I would say that in light of the times I am definitely against unity if it means we have to sacrifice on key aspects of the doctrine we believe the bible teaches. That said, I am for unity with all those that hold to biblical teachings, the bible leaves me no choice but to seek unity.​

    In relation to doctrinal apostasy, it seems to come down to differences over Gospel and ecclesiology (the bulk of the NT teachings). Also, back in the 1st century this would have been a division between those that hold to what the apostles teach compared to those who add to or subtract from it.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    from the earlier link;
    Desire for popularity,

    zeal for numerical growth,

    eagerness for harmony

    and the pressure of emotional appeals cause some brethren to make the same mistakes, in principle, that the sectarians have always made.


    This blindness causes some to think of the church mostly as a social agency instead of the spiritual body that it really is.


    Doctrine gets sacrificed or compromised if a pastor and the leadership cannot stand firm as they should.
    http://www.biblecharts.org/churchofchrist/fourstepstoapostasy.pdf
     
    #20 Iconoclast, May 27, 2018
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
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