Featured The Sabbath was not Changed

Originally Posted by BobRyan
In Romans 8 Paul tells us that the lost person cannot keep the Law of God - but the saved person can.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be


Romans 8
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. ...
Sonship Through the Spirit

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

 

Adam ate fruit - it was immoral to rebel against the WORD of God - and eat from the wrong tree.

If in Gen 2:3 Adam ALSO chose to rebel against the Sabbath - that would be another example of rebellion against the WORD of God.

In 1John 3:4 - John says that SIN by definition is "transgression of the Law of God" - rebellion against God's WORD.

The point remains.

Gal 3:10 is about the problem for the lost.

Only the lost "are of the works of the law" - the "obey and Live" condition applies to the lost - and they are condemned by it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Now - what about the saved person who has the Law of God written on the heart?

For him Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".

For him Paul says "do we then abolish the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

John says it this way -

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Once again you begin by describing the role of the law to the lost. Paul and John in the examples above - speak to the case of the Law for the saints.

You seem to have only one view of it that you will post.

In 1 John 5 and Rev 14 above we have "The Commandments of GOD" and in 1John 5 "His Commandments".

Ex 20 - the SECOND Commandment of the TEN Commandments.

Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep My Commandments.

The wild claim that the TEN Commandments ARE NOT the Commandments of God - the WORD of God is debunked by Christ.

Mark 7:6-13 shows them to be the Commandments of God - the WORD of God.


[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.



[/FONT]

 

You might as well say "The curse of the Law is Loving God with all your heart - Deut 6:5".

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be


Romans 8
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1. You confuse the requirement with the curse.
2. The wild idea that the Gospel is there so that we no longer need to be concerned with obeying the Word of God - and with loving God with all of our heart - is not supported in all of scripture.

You are still circling back to the view of the law from the standpoint of the lost person who says that love for God, Love for my neighbor, not stealing etc is all out of reach in perfect obedience and still doomed in need of a Savior.

You seem to be unwilling to post the view of the Law that the saved person has.

Ahhh yes - the curse that is upon the lost person.

Again - you point out how clearly you can see that.

But the challenge you refuse is to show the relationship to the Law of God for the saved.

Even though I post it for you right from the Word of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

Not true. In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" that is to keep the Sabbath.

In Isaiah 56 it is NON-Jews that are blessed for keeping the Sabbath.

In Gen 2:3 Adam's first full day of life - is the SABBATH.

In Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH as MADE for MANKIND".

Read the texts above and you will see why even Baptist documents affirm this point.

Yes it is according to God. In Ex 20:11 God says that the Gen 2:3 fact ALONE makes the Sabbath binding on all.

And in Gen 2:3 "Shabbat" - rest - as well as the "Made it holy" Sanctified - all found in Gen 2:3 and also in Ex 20:8-11.

You may find them "inconvenient" but they are "applicable".

In Is 56 it is most certainly OT gentiles that get that blessing even before the NT.

In Is 66 it is most certainly "ALL MANKIND" that is the intended target and scope for applying the 4th commandment Sabbath - still valid into all of eternity.

Hence there "REMAINS a Sabbath REST for the people of God" from those days - to this very day. Heb 4.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Not true. In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" that is to keep the Sabbath.

In Isaiah 56 it is NON-Jews that are blessed for keeping the Sabbath.

In Gen 2:3 Adam's first full day of life - is the SABBATH.

In Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH as MADE for MANKIND".

Read the texts above and you will see why even Baptist documents affirm this point.

Then you will be interested in this Baptist document where Gen 2:3 IS Affirmed as being the 4th Commandment Sabbath.

(Or is this the part where you explain that this Baptist document is not talking about the 4th commandment - no matter what it says to the contrary??)

=======================

Baptist Confession of Faith - 1689

http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689/kerkham/1689.htm#Ch19



THE LAW OF GOD


19.1 God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart,1 and a specific precept not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.2 By this he bound him and all his descendants to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience. God promised life on fulfilling it, and threatened death on breaching it, and he endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
(1) Gen 1:27; Ecc 7:29; Rom 2:12a,14-15
(2) Gen 2:16-17
(3) Gen 2:16-17; Rom 10:5; Gal 3:10,12

19.2 The same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall.1 It was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in TEN commandments (written in two tables) the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six our duty to our fellow beings.3
(1) For the Fourth Commandment: Gen 2:3; Exo 16; Gen 7:4; 8:10,12. For the Fifth Commandment: Gen 37:10. For the Sixth Commandment: Gen 4:3-15. For the Seventh Commandment: Gen 12:17. For the Eighth Commandment: Gen 31:30; 44:8. For the Ninth Commandment: Gen 27:12. For the Tenth Commandment: Gen 6:2; 13:10-11
(2) Rom 2:12a,14-15
(3) Exo 32:15-16; 34:4,28; Deu 10:4

19.3 Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These were partly concerning worship, and in them Christ was prefigured—his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits.1 They also gave instructions about various moral duties.2 All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of the New Testament, when Jesus Christ abrogated them and took them away, for he was the true Messiah and only law-giver, and was empowered to do this by the Father.3
(1) Heb 10:1; Col 2:16-17
(2) 1Co 5:7; 2Co 6:17; Jude 1:23
(3) Col 2:14,16-17; Eph 2:14-16

19.4 To the people of Israel he also gave various judicial laws which lapsed when they ceased as a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation,1 but their principles of equity continue to be applicable in modern times.2
(1) Luk 21:20-24; Act 6:13-14; Heb 9:18-19 with 8:7,13; 9:10; 10:1
(2) 1Co 5:1; 9:8-10

19.5 Obedience to the moral law remains forever binding on all, both justified persons and others,1 both in regard to the content of the law, and also to the authority of God the Creator who gave the law.2 Nor does Christ in any way dissolve this law in the Gospel, on the contrary, he strengthens our obligation [to obey the moral law].3
(1) Mat 19:16-22; Rom 2:14-15; 3:19-20; 6:14; 7:6; 8:3; 1Ti 1:8-11; Rom 13:8-10; 1Co 7:19 with Gal 5:6; 6:15; Eph 4:25-6:4; Jas 2:11-12
(2) Jas 2:10-11
(3) Mat 5:17-19; Rom 3:31; 1Co 9:21; Jas 2:8

19.6 Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works to be justified or condemned by it,1 yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty, and directs and binds them to walk accordingly.2

 

Not true. In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" that is to keep the Sabbath.

In Isaiah 56 it is NON-Jews that are blessed for keeping the Sabbath.

In Gen 2:3 Adam's first full day of life - is the SABBATH.

In Mark 2:27 "the SABBATH as MADE for MANKIND".

Read the texts above and you will see why even Baptist documents affirm this point.

Then you will be interested in this Baptist document where Gen 2:3 IS Affirmed as being the 4th Commandment Sabbath.

The reference is "inconvenient" for your claim that the OT does not show that the Sabbath is meant for all mankind - but that does not make it "irrelevant".

I think we can all see that.

The Isaiah 66:23 text goes far beyond the millennium to the "New Heavens and New Earth" - as is stated "in the text" and as we see in Rev 21.

For all of eternity ALL mankind keeps the actual Bible Sabbath "from Sabbath to Sabbath" where God says that "ALL Mankind will come before Me to worship". How tragic for the doctrine that says that the Sabbath is not intended for all mankind.

No wonder the Baptist Confession of Faith - does not choose such a short-sighted solution.

Next: In Isaiah 56 it is NON-Jews that are blessed for keeping the Sabbath.

The reference is "inconvenient" for your claim that the OT does not show that the Sabbath is meant for all mankind - but that does not make it "irrelevant".

I think we can all see that.

Isaiah 56 is for the time of Isaiah - pre-cross.

Isaiah points to PRESENT and PAST tense obedience by gentiles and then to FUTURE blessing for that obedience (just as we see for us in the NT).

Is 56

Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord say,
“The Lord will surely separate me from His people.”
Nor let the eunuch say, “Behold, I am a dry tree.” 4 For thus says the Lord,
“To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial,
And a name better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.



6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."


Christ condemns the Jews in His day for not allowing this same purpose for God's pre-cross temple to be served - daily.


in Christ,


Bob

 

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Not true. In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL MANKIND" that is to keep the Sabbath.

Sadly your entire argument fails at that point.,

You have already admitted that "ALL mankind comes before God to WORSHIP" from "Sabbath to Sabbath" Isaiah 66:23 even by OT standards - in the New Earth and that this is the OT view of it, scope of it and application of it for ALL MANKIND. You simply "hope" that it is limited to that FUTURE of all eternity in the New Earth and that now you don't have to bother Keeping the Word of God regarding that very Sabbath that you admit you WILL be keeping for all of eternity.

Thus when Christ says the Sabbath at the very START was "MADE for Mankind" you are stuck and so you come up with your "chair" excuse as if you just forgot the post you just made admitting that even the OT application for "ALL MANKIND" and the Sabbath is WORSHIP in Isaiah 66:23.

You have no place to go on this one - and yet want to blame it on me.

No wonder the Baptist Confession of Faith does not choose your short-sighted solution.

You are left with no place to go on this.

in Christ,

Bob