1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Saddest Day in History!

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Cliff B, Nov 4, 2008.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    79
    Do you really believe that God's plan is so americocentric?
     
  2. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0

    Worse than Pearl Harbor?
     
  3. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,135
    Likes Received:
    322
    Faith:
    Baptist
    About the same. First the japs, and now obama, sank the Arizona.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    3
    Roger,

    That's a great question. I have often wondered if we put too much stock in tying what happens here in the USA into Biblical prophecy.
     
  5. dcorbett

    dcorbett Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    1
    Faith:
    Baptist
  6. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,362
    Likes Received:
    47
    "How do we know this isn't part of God's plan?"

    It is and that is what gives us peace to move forward, but it does not forbid us from decrying what our nation has done. God works His work in spite of man but when His people assist in the other sides works it is truly a sad day.

    Have just studied the prophecy of the destruction of the temple in Mark and the reason for it being the rejection of God on earth. Many "believers" have set aside their God in their worship, living and mindset today. Dunno if this is judgment or not but it sure looks like it could be.

    Then again God might change Obomba's heart tomorrow and we will see great blessing - dunno - don't know the good Lord's mind but am so glad He does :thumbs:
     
  7. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this election is the outcome of both the spiritual health of the nation and the political health of the nation.

    Many could only see the election as between Bush haters and Republicans.
    Some saw it only in terms of economics, the security they hold in jobs or in social programs. Some saw the election as strictly choices between pro-life and abortion. Some saw the election as between war in Iraq and no war. And, no doubt, a few saw it as a vote either along racial lines.... or for false assumptions of guilt over the sins of the fathers based on race.


    Very few saw that no matter which of the major candidates they voted for, the leadership of both parties is carrying us in the direction of socialism and globalism, or maybe the masses don't care and are satisfied..... including the Christians within each camp.

    Far too many of us have loyalties either with Republicans or Democrats. Far too many of us can face a ballot which has multiple names, or opportunities to write in a candidate.... but still see only two choices, as though blind, and foster this lie upon others who might be willing to think differently if there were enough who spoke the truth....... and the truth was that in most states, people DID have choices beyond the 2 parties but didn't take it.

    Why do we refuse to choose a candidate that is not a Republican nor a Democrat?
    Is is really because we think a third party is not electable? How can they be without someone being the first to cast their vote in hopes that another may follow, and another, and another, etc.? Is it because we think they do not possess the qualifications? The Constitution sets the bar low for qualifications.... and it is God who gives wisdom to those who seek him, so could it really be that we don't trust God to give wisdom to leadership? Is is because we are afraid of ridicule? This is so inherently false fear as the ballot is secret and a vote cast in secret is still a vote so noone knows except a voter tells another. Is is because a third party vote may spoil the vote for the 'lesser of two evils' when an election is close? In such case, one is voting on the lottery system and not with the choices which they were given, and their vote is not making any difference in the leadership nor direction for the two major parties.

    When I view the election returns in my county and see that about 56 thousand votes casts for McCain, and about 20 thousand votes casts for Obama, and 195 votes cast for Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party.... I know that my little vote did not break the Presidential Election. And I know that however small the number may be, in this county there are 194 other souls so identified with convictions similar to mine that I have little to concern myself about where they stand if we could all stand together. And I know from talking personally to many others that they had agreement with me except that they thought their vote wouldn't have counted if they cast for 3rd party.

    Well, as things now stand..... Their vote didn't make an iota's worth of difference for the direction of either party, and neither did their differences with either party. And their difference with their parties was silenced when they voted with the masses.
     
  8. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,468
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed. There will still be problems with or without Obama, McCain, Bush, Clinton, Pelosi, and on and on.

    I wonder what God thinks when He sees us freak out, as if the Gospel has lost power?

    I refuse to be afraid...and I certainly refuse to act as if the good news has been weakened.
     
  9. Cliff B

    Cliff B New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is no question that this is part of God's plan. It is within His perfect will or it would not have happened. No matter what we baptists think, even a 2/3 majority does not over-rule the will of God.
    Some have questioned my faith for my original post, but if the prophets of God did not show a lack of faith in hurting for those who turned their backs on God, & if Jesus wept because Jerusalem turned her back on God, I think I'm in pretty good company being sad for America who has without question turned her back on God.
    I'm not sad about not getting my way. & I'm certainly not dissapointed with God. He is always faithful. But I am sad that our nation has taken one giant step away from Him.
     
  10. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Agreed. I remember how some people here on this very board condemned Jerry Falwell for saying 09/11 was God's judgment on America. Well, he was speaking prophetically after all. 09/11 was a wake up call to Christians and to America which was unheeded. The Obama win is God's judgment on this unrighteous nation and those who call themselves Christians but condone sodomy and killing millions of innocent babies, professing themselves wise, they became fools. (Romans 1)

    I was going to wear all black to prayer meeting tonight, but changed my mind. It is God's will and we will suffer through it and He will give His Grace and Strength as He has for others. At least we don't have to go underground just yet, as other Christians have done and are doing even today. We have a little time left before the persecution begins in America.
     
    #30 LadyEagle, Nov 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2008
  11. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1
    Did you cut Romans 13:1-7 out of your Bible?

    Do you think a sovereign God somehow became powerless and allowed someone to be elected president of the US without his knowledge, approval or against his will?

    Guess again.
     
  12. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1
    God's judgement, under the new covenant that came into place when Christ was resurrected, does not fall on "nations" or for that matter "countries" because they do not elect the "right" politicians to office. Romans 13 clearly says that whatever governing authorities are there hold their office because God put them there.

    If you can show me, from the New Testament, and particularly from the words of Jesus, where the new covenant is between God and a country, rather than between God and an individual, I may think differently. But the fact of the matter is that God's judgement is upon all humankind, individually, because of our sin, not collectively as a nation. That only applied to Israel, and only under the old covenant. The only way to escape judgement for sin is to receive Jesus as your Lord and savior. And neither a nation nor a country can do that collectively. Only individuals can.

    If you read a lot of these comments, and pay careful attention to what people are saying, you will come to the conclusion that there are many people here who are saying essentially the same thing that Obama's former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, said in that message from which those tiny soundbytes were taken. Wright was preaching that God was judging America because of its sin. He was calling the country's racism a sin. You are calling its election of someone whose politics you disagree with as a sin. I don't see the difference, especially if you listen to all of Wright's sermon and not just two lines from it.
     
  13. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good point, but sadly many here believe just such a lie.

    My bible tells me:

    1 Tim 2:1-3
    1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
    2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    (KJV)

    Prov 21:1
    1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
    (KJV)

    Dan 5:21
    21 ... the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.
    (KJV)
     
  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    I bet you cut the part out of your Bible where it says God will judge the nations.
     
  15. Cliff B

    Cliff B New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    0
    No Jack, I don't cut any of God's Word out! I read & teach it all.

    But obviously you didn't read my last post before you decided to let me know how wrong I am about the sovereignty of God.
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    7,047
    Likes Received:
    636
    Cliff B, this is a wild exaggeration.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  17. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,254
    Likes Received:
    1
    According to the NT writers they were living in the end times. Therefore, all time from then until now and until the Lord returns is the end times.
     
  18. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1
    No, it's still there, but it is interpreted in its context. Find me a New Testament passage that says anything about God judging nations in the new covenant. Judgement is on all people in all nations who have not received Jesus as their Lord and Savior. "Nations" cannot do that.

    The Biblical definition of "nation" (if you want, we can go all through all of the Hebrew foundations of it) refers to the people who are the descendents of a specific founder, such as Israel being descended from Israel (aka Jacob,) or Moab being the descendants of Esau, etc. The United States is not a "nation" in the Biblical sense of the term, but is a country made up of people from many nations.

    Under the new covenant, at least, according to I Peter 2:9-10, the people of God are all believers of every nation.
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    79
    That is an excellent point that I had not considered before.

    More for my pea sized brain to have deal with :)
     
  20. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2002
    Messages:
    4,254
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't know about the rest of you, but my Bible tells me that God ordains the authority of our civil governments. Therefore, I tend to agree with Sister Sue regarding the election last night. God gave the American people the leader they asked to receive. His (BHO's) stated positions on several issues are clearly against the teaching of God's Word. We will see what will come of persuing a path in opposition of God.
     
    #40 Bible-boy, Nov 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2008
Loading...