The Seedy Legacy of Rock Music II

So those bad uses of those styles don't matter.
But on the other hand:

Likewise, if Hitler wanted to march his ungodly troops to those rhythms, he could have played them all day in vain. But with the good ol' traditional marching style (used in many churches for hymns), and *poof*, the soldier is off to do the Feuhrer's bidding!

Not as far as their corruptibility.

If by "music parlance" he means style, well don;t they sound just like other songs that came out from the same period. An old Warner Brothers cartoon about hazz siging owl with a jazz hating music teacher for a father uses the sone "Drink to me only with thine eyes" as the "traditional" sound the father enforced, and it sounds just like one of the old hymns! That story parallels this debate so much!

And you still have never proven which stress is good and which is bad. You only throw up associatin,s ut as is being shown here to you, all forms have bad associations. You now only dismiss those on your style of music.

 

Interesting Database on music...(including rock)

It's good. But the rock music defenders will shoot it down... (of course, they don't wanna be told thier music is evil!)

MH

 

Cloud's stuff has already been shot down. It is nothing more than the rehashing of the same old tired cycle of fallacy.
Notice the second thing on the list is "Amy Grant's Divorce" (as if that was a solid proof against the whole genre of music). Cloud elsewhere discusses Peter Ruckman's 3 divorces. Does that prove KJVOnlyism (which Cloud is a part of) false? (The only reason he goes after Ruckman's personal life, is because in the fashion of the typical one-upmanship in this movement, Ruckman is more fervent in the issue that he is, and has derided him as too soft on it!).
So with the way Cloud likes to try to dish up dirt on people (you have stars who have died further down, etc) his newsletter is almost like a tabloid you find on the store shelf! Instead of worrying about CCM's worldliness, he needs to realize his own!

That side of the debate is just putting up a lot of talk, but upon examination, it is all empty, yet they are holding it up as a real Biblical case.

 

The problem that many of us have with David Cloud and these anti-rock rants is that they really are irrelevant.

They're all based on urban myths such as, "a missionary was travelling deep in the African jungles and put on some rock music. The medicine men were horrified and told him, 'This is the same beat we use to summon demons'" or faulty logic such as, "Joe Blow did 'X'. Job Blow is a rock and roll musician. Therefore, rock and roll music is bad." The problem, of course, is that 'X' is usually completely unrelated to the music. While I have been a outspoken critic of Amy Grant's divorce, it really doesn't have any moral affect on her music one way or the other.

Another problem that I have is that they're often based on sloppy, if not downright irresponsible, jounralism and outright lies.

For instance, they claim that Brian Wilson's music is evil because he "hears voices" and the fact that he hears voices is somehow evidence that he's demon possessed.

They are notorious for taking out of context quotes and applying them to the artists they're condemning. In one example from the page you posted, he says, "The attitude of Amy Grant and her associates toward biblical fundamentalists is expressed in the following statement:", and then goes on to quote somebody else and attribute the quote to Amy Grant. That's dishonest.

Then, he quotes Brown Bannister as "displays his despite toward fundamentalist Bible-believing Christians in the following statement:", but they neglect to mention that the statement has nothing to do with Fundamentalist Christians, but with the difficulties of writing music for a genre that is very limited.

One of the essays dealt with artists from the fifties. This is one of the times I wish my dad was here to get into this argument. He played with many of the biggest stars of the fifties and early sixties, one of whom, Johnny Burnette, is mentioned in the article.

My dad told me many times before his death that Wanda Jackson and Brenda Lee would often insist on stopping at local churches when they were travelling on Sundays.

Wanda Jackson later retired from rock and roll for many years to devote herself to Gospel music full time.

One of the other tactics I always find to be funny is the idea of, "just look at all of the artists who died". Doesn't that show that rock and roll is wrong?

No. Typically, the means of death have nothing to do with the music and it doesn't explain why the opposite is not also true: just look at all of the many more artists who go on to live long, healthy lives. Doesn't that show that rock and roll is a good thing?

The bottom line is that very little of these things address the music, itself, and then, usually only in very vague terms.

What does "sensual" mean? What if what you find to be sensual isn't sensual to me? Is sensual always bad?

They never want to address these issues.

They never want to address the fact that an artist such as, say, Rich Mullins, is so different from Ozzy Osbourne as to render any comparison of the two illogical.

Until they address the music on it's own merits and do it seriously, honestly, and respectfully, I refuse to take them seriously.

Now Playing: Jimmy Buffett - a bootleg from a performance in a small bar in Aspen, CO about two and a half weeks ago

 

Your last statement contradicts your previous one in this regard. "rock-n-roll" has predominately been played everywhere except in church prior to the 60's, it is therefore not God's music and it's association relates directly to it's conception. To inject the Gospel into something birthed from the area it came from is heretical and perfect evidence of apostacy.

Love not the world, nor the things therein. I heard that somewhere before, you?

 

Banjo and accordian will be part of the eternal punishment for lost classical musicians.

 

Your last statement contradicts your previous one in this regard. "rock-n-roll" has predominately been played everywhere except in church prior to the 60's, it is therefore not God's music and it's association relates directly to it's conception. To inject the Gospel into something birthed from the area it came from is heretical and perfect evidence of apostacy.

Love not the world, nor the things therein. I heard that somewhere before, you? </font>[/QUOTE]So what do you suggest? hole up in a cave and not like anything that God has given us?
You may not want to admit it, but there are things in this world that you love. I see you use a computer, electric, and the internet.

At least the amish are true to what they believe.
Do you have running water?

All I mentioned above is worldly, all appeal to the flesh. So if CCM is wrong then they are too, unless you have scripture to prove CCM is ungodly.

soft bathroom tissue appeals to my flesh, i am certainly not going to give it up for leaves!

 

This just makes me happier that I'm saved!

 

By that logic, Baal worship was practiced long before the 60's. Does that mean that it's appropriate worship?

Let's be fair here.

Rock and roll was only around for about twelve years before 1960. Given the tendency of the church to move very slowly at that time, as well as, sad to say, the racial attitudes of the church at that time, I don't thin it's unreasonable for rock and roll to have taken roughly twenty years to find it's way into the church.

Let's also take a moment to consider that (a) the music that would become rock and roll was birthed largely in the church (or do black churches not count) and that (b) many, if not most, of the artists of that day also recorded religious music.

I'm sure glad God didn't take that attitude when He injected the Gospel into me.

Yes, it's a line commonly taken out of context from 1 John 2, to prop up arguments against rock music, shorts, long hair, or anything else when a substantive argument fails.

Now Playing: Beau Brummels - "Best of the Beau Brummels"

 

Your last statement contradicts your previous one in this regard. "rock-n-roll" has predominately been played everywhere except in church prior to the 60's, it is therefore not God's music and it's association relates directly to it's conception. To inject the Gospel into something birthed from the area it came from is heretical and perfect evidence of apostacy.

Love not the world, nor the things therein. I heard that somewhere before, you? </font>[/QUOTE]So what do you suggest? hole up in a cave and not like anything that God has given us?
You may not want to admit it, but there are things in this world that you love. I see you use a computer, electric, and the internet.

At least the amish are true to what they believe.
Do you have running water?

All I mentioned above is worldly, all appeal to the flesh. So if CCM is wrong then they are too, unless you have scripture to prove CCM is ungodly.

soft bathroom tissue appeals to my flesh, i am certainly not going to give it up for leaves! </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously you have issues when it comes to discerning what is of this present evil world/ incites deviant behaviour predominately and what does not.

 

Ditto my reply to tinytim.

I used to be quite the rock-n-roller BEFORE I got saved. I know what it did to influence my thinking contrary to a renewed mind that comes with salvation and the teaching of God's Word.

A devious influences is known best by it's associates. Need I say anything more?

If you wish to have the same sound in your church as the local bar, that is your choice, not God's choice of a solemn sound.

Discernment: something quite alien to the BB.

 

Mike wrote, "Rock and roll was only around for about twelve years before 1960. Given the tendency of the church to move very slowly at that time, as well as, sad to say, the racial attitudes of the church at that time, I don't thin it's unreasonable for rock and roll to have taken roughly twenty years to find it's way into the church."

I have always thought that one reason CCM was not welcomed in some churches was for racial reasons. Especially when people say that drums are evil because they came from Africa.
That is a racial statement.
Africa is no worse a place than England.
Sin is sin no matter what country you are in.

Who cares where drums came from?
Banjo's came from Africa also.

Growing up I was surrounded by racist bigots, and guess what they called CCM...
"Black N..... Music" Therefore they considered it evil. Even if a white guy was playing it.
"It still originated from black Africa, so it is evil" they would say.

I agree with one thing you said, Salamander, Discernment is something quite alien to the BB.
some that is.
So is sticking to scripture to prove a point.
Show me where CCM is wrong in the Bible.

BTW, we don't have the same style music as our local bar. We have a blended sound. From Classic hymns to Casting Crowns. There is not a lot of members in our church that like country, which is what is played in the local bar. Oh, Southern Gospel sounds like Country. Do you really want to open that can of worms?

 

I am talking locally. I heard that growing up in church. Hopefully no one believes that here.
But the reasoning was drums are what the tribes play in Africa = the tribes were pagan = drums are pagan.

My response has always been, "What about banjo's"
They came from the same people that played the drums.

I guess that is 1 reason I do not like the philosophy that CCM is sinful. I grew up hearing sinful, racists, proclaim it to be. And one of their reasons was the above.

If you do not believe that drums are pagan, then good. I agree with you, drums are not pagan.

 

Hey Aaron,

Psalm 150:

"
Psa 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

Psa 150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

Psa 150:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Psa 150:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."

The timbrel is a drum and God commands its use in Psalm 150 to worship and praise Him,so how can He then tell YOU that it's wrong? Are you claiming a "special revelation" from Him,since you seem to speak with "Scriptural authority" ?

Your Gnosticism is showing.

In Christ,

Dale

 

Since when did a tamborine become a drum?

 

I'm still trying to find when the drum became a worldly instrument. I've been to many a Salvation Army worship service, and they've got HUUUGE drums during their music. I don't think anyone can rightly call the Salvation Army guilty of worldliness in their music or worship.