The Seedy Legacy of Rock Music II

Anytime someone is claiming to speak for God, we should all care whether or not they can demonstrate what they're saying from scripture.

If the point was that he did not say drums were evil because they are from Africa, then why did you bring up the fact that he said that drums are wrong because God doesn't like them?

Now Playing: Neil Young - "Prarie Wind"

 

Dear Aaron,

You wrote: "That Africa is, and has been all through history, a stronghold of Satan, is not my fault. That's just the way it is.

I'm sorry guys, you just don't have a race card to play in this game."

Who's playing the "race card" here?

In every one of your past postings regarding drums & rhythms in past and present threads have always alluded to "voodoo" and pagan Africa.

I have news for you! Africa is much more Christian than the US or Western Europe. In fact,African churches view we "civilized,morally superior" Americans and Europeans as an "unchurched mission field",just the way we viewed them in the past!

The same goes for the Latin & South American Asian,and Pacific Rim churches.

Adding to the irony,I remember when "Liberation
Theology" aka "Jesus & Marx, All the way!" was being spread by American & European missionaries in the '60's.

But the poor,"pagan" Africans,Latin Americans,Asians,etc. didn't buy it,much to the chagrin of the "Liberationists".

Christianity in Africa is growing very rapidly and challenging Islam. African Christians face cruel persecution and choose martyrdom over renouncing Christianity. We "civilized" should do as much!

How about the Ethiopian Coptic Church that can trace its lineage back to Phillip & the Ethiopian enuuch ? They use drums in their worship.

Care to comment further on "pagan" Africa?

How many Christian Nigerians,Ghanaians,
Ugandans,etc.do you know personally ?

How many are your friends ?

I and my wife do. We work with them,eat with them,and deepen the bonds of Christian love with them.

Before you make any further comments regarding any other Christians,foreign or domestic,think & pray.

In Christ,

Dale

 

I saw that, too and thought it was pretty funny.

That's what I alluded to in a previous post but my comments got cut off.

Everytime I hear these people talk about Africa, everybody always lives in the jungle and practices voodoo.

That's not racist, is it?

Maybe he meant that we don't have a race card because he already claimed the race card.

Now Playing: Batdorf and Rodney - "Batdorf and Rodney Live at McCabe's Guitar Shop"

 

Dear Mike McK,



In Christ,

Dale

 

I meant dealing with them salvifically, or covenantally or as far as revealing his truth. God just punished them as they came into conflict with the Israelites. Egypt was chosen simply because they were the ones right there in the neighboring land. The Europeans were further away, and they would in time replace Egypt as the oppressors of Israel. But by that time, Israel was the one being punished by God, so He allowed them to be taken captive by the successive kingdoms. (It is not some moral inferiority of Egypt compared to those other kingdoms that led to the different outcomes)

 

Just like Dale and Mike are pointing out regarding race; why do these things keep being brought up in the issue then? They are central to the arguments as the ultimate 'proof' that one style is good, the other is bad.

 

I'm not the one bringing them up. You even show this by turning around and saying: "But the fact that rock music has its roots in African Voodoo will come up any time anyone alludes to the history of rock music". That's not our side that brings that up; it's your side trying to trash the whole genre through its previous "associations" (one of the spokes on the fallacious cycle). Then, I respond by debunking your claims about past Western Civilization, and now you call this a "race card" (as if I said it first) or "revision".

And this is what is in dispute. They were not "more righteous"; only different sins were practiced openly, while others that are more familiar today (such as sexual sin) were more covered up. The problem stems from Fundamentalism's flawed definition of "righteousness" in terms of sexual mores and outward "reverence (lip service) to God ONLY, ingnoring most everything else. THIS is why the 1960's always comes out as the pivotal turning point in the nations's "righeousness". But that is because Conservatives have made up their own mind which of God's commandments are important.

Race relations was one of the past's most grievous sins, but it was not recognized as sin. You say "The slaves were pagans, and they brought with them their devil worship and superstitions". but then maybe they should have been teaching them the Gospel, instead of just using the Bible to justify slavery (In the beginning, it was forbidden to teach the slaves the Bible, and the "devil worship" remained as an excuse for their treatment!)
If the Arabs, Communists, Mexicans, or anyone else today came and took over this country, and enslaved us (as many seem to often fear), then we would all scream that this was wrong; it is stealing what is someone else's. But why was it OK when the explorers and founders of this country did it? (This is how they gained their "dominance"). You say that they were being "rewarded" for their "righteousness" (once before, you claimed those conquered were being punished for their idolatry), but not only is this not the New Testament mandate for Christians (as you yourself say, we cannot do everything that was done in the OT, yet we keep pointing back to that when it is convenient for us!) you basically are attributing what was no less sin as a divine reward of "righteousness". (Including "manstealing" which is condemned in a list of sins in 1 Tim.1:9, 10) No wonder they come out as so righteous! You will find, if you were to ask many blacks and anti-Christian whites today why they resent Christianity so much, is because of what they call the "twisted morality". Everything they do is right when they do it, but wrong when others do it. They are "right" just because they are right! This is like someone today saying "God gave me your wife because of my righteousness"; and using the first husband's mistreatment of her, for example, as further justification! (NOW does the absurdity of this potion become more obvious? But then that's a sexual moral issue. Of course that's bad, right?)

Once again, all of this almost OT tangent discussion comes because it is your side (inclusing some of those pages) that indirectly plays the "race card" with the West's "moral superiority". This needs to be refuted, because when REALLY held up to the Bible, and not just convenient proof texts, with the rest ignored; the whole arguments falls. Thus, with this, one of your main proofs of which music is good or bad collapses, (leaving your only defense then complaints about "revisionism" and "race cards").

African Christianity was not the dominant cultural force on the continent. It was new, and introduced from the West (and often wrongly wedded to Western ideas, read into scripture. This too has caused a lot of problems in reaching people with today's pluralistic reaction).

And that just shows that we are taking whatever we can find to trash the style, no matter how truthful it is. (Besides, both groups were distantly related with colored skin, plus seen as just as inferior and cursed anyway, so either one would do).

Because though he is making a point that may be taken by rock critics to support their claims, still, the motivation is totally different. Ventura, apparently, is saying rock is good, and Christianity is bad. The rock critics are saying rock is bad, and a jumbled "ChristianityWesternculture" is good. Both associate rock with African shamanism, but one uses that point to trash both and uphold their own culture, while the other uses it to contrast rock with the uptightness of traditional Christianity. He is not necessarily taking a side between Africa and the West (at least from what you have posted), but if he does favor Africa and depise the West, then you could call him a [reverse] racist. But what good would that do for us? WE are the Christians here. Pointing at others' sins is childish and does not justify our own behavior!

It is not me hollering "racist, racist"; the inference just stands out, (and its history, and current advocates such as Paulson are not made up by me) and all I am doing is pointing it out! The only rebuttal you have is to holler "revision, revision!", and "race card, race card!", and then offer some response (as the ones above) that do not come near proving your point.

 

Dear Eric B,

Excellent post as always!

Here's the lyrics to "Hear That Long Snake Moan" by P.J.Harvey:

" Um-hmmm

Dunk you under
Deep salt water
Bring me lover
All your power
I'll be no hell
Out of your spell
Over
Under
Die of pleasure

Hear my dreaming
You'll be drowning
Hell's no god above
All drunk on my love

You oughtta hear my long snake
Moan!
You oughtta see me crawl my
Moan!

Dunk you under
Deep salt water
In my dreaming
You'll be drowning
Raise me up lord
Call me lazarus
Hey lord
Help me
Make me my fail

You oughtta hear my long snake
Moan!
You oughtta see me crawl my...
Moan!

It's my voodoo working
It's my voodoo working
It's my voodoo working
It's my voodoo working

Moan!
Moan!
Moan!
Moan!
Woo!
Moan!
Moan!
Moan!"

I thought that you'd appreciate the irony of Aaron supporting "Hear That Long Snake Moan"!

BTW,Ventura's essay is used in classes on Postmodernism and Deconstructionalism at some colleges,but not in music studies.


In Christ,

Dale

 

I heard a Bob Jones graduate tell me banjos couldn't be pleasing to the Lord, 'cuz they originate from Africa. I mean PAGAN Africa.

 

Given Bob Jones' relationship with the Klan, does this surprise you?

Now Playing: Jimmy Buffett - "Somewhere Over China"