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The Sin Question

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro. James, Oct 2, 2004.

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  1. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God; there are none righteous no not one"

    This pretty well establishes the total depravity of mankind. From what part of his depraved nature does man find faith to believe anything regarding God?

    Answer: Eph.2:8 says,"For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."
    This tells me that we have no faith at all of ourselves--God gives us the faith to believe. Why do many people refer to "their faith" as if somehow it came from them? Therefore, they have: "faith in their faith". That sounds like another topic for discussion.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #1 Bro. James, Oct 2, 2004
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    It is a great question, but belongs in the Theology Forum, not the history forum.

    So it is written. So it shall be done.
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, Oct 5, 2004
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Ridiculous! This only establishes that each individual person has committed a sin. Paul tells us later in the same epistle that each individual person sinned when Adam sinned. All that we have here is culpability for Adam’s sin with no implication of any other sin.

    What depraved nature? The Bible does not say that anyone has or ever had a depraved nature. Long before I knew anything about Jesus I was a nice little boy with a lot of faith in God. I had never read the Bible and my faith in God was based solely upon empirical evidence.

    [​IMG]
     
    #3 Craigbythesea, Oct 10, 2004
  4. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    No you weren't and no you didn't. You may have thought you were and you may have come off pretty good compared to other little boys but that is not the standard we compare ourselves to.

    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Unless you think you are the exception to that rule. (I don't think you do.)
     
    #4 Artimaeus, Oct 10, 2004
  5. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I was not righteous by God’s standards, but my faith in Him was unwavering and I chose not to willfully sin because I saw from my own observations that the consequences of sin were substantially less than pleasant. I saw how Christians behaved, and I excluded them from my company.

    [​IMG]
     
    #5 Craigbythesea, Oct 10, 2004
  6. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    I agree with Craig on this one. God didn't make us to be wretched and without value. Because of our sin we are unworthy of His perfection. The verse says all have fallen short - and that probably describes it best.
     
    #6 Charles Meadows, Oct 10, 2004
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Brother James, the "gift" is that of salvation, not faith. I am a 7 point calvinist and agree with total depravity, so that is not the issue.

    Craig, if your view is correct, then children do not need the savior. I would recommend you read Eph. 2, where Paul said that he was once a "child of wrath BY NATURE".

    Chuckles, it is hard to believe you would agree with a liberal position.
     
    #7 Daniel David, Oct 10, 2004
  8. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Ah yes, Daniel David will argue us all right into the arms of Pelagius!

    [​IMG]
     
    #8 Charles Meadows, Oct 10, 2004
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Sad that you find humor in his beliefs. Sad, but not unexpected.
     
    #9 Daniel David, Oct 10, 2004
  10. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Oh well, I guess God double predestinated my salvation even though I'm liberal (I'm actually not) and even though I'm a liberal (I'm actually not) He predestinated my salvation.

    :D :D

    By the way I guess you're a John Piper fan?
     
    #10 Charles Meadows, Oct 10, 2004
  11. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    It is extremely difficult for me to respond to a statement like this with out sounding condescending, but I shall try: The Bible says in Romans 5 that we have all sinned in Adam. Therefore, we all (including children) need a savior.

    [​IMG]
     
    #11 Craigbythesea, Oct 10, 2004
  12. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Some “Christians” are in much more need of salvation than are some “sinners.” And one does not need to look very far to find the proof of this statement.

    [​IMG]
     
    #12 Craigbythesea, Oct 10, 2004
  13. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I rejoice in the fact that God does not agree with that foolishness. Calvin lived a life in the most horrible of sins, and was so blinded by them that he could not tell the difference between a sinner and a saint, even on his best days.

    [​IMG]
     
    #13 Craigbythesea, Oct 10, 2004
  14. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

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    Even if your behavior was better than 100% of the people you knew, you still have to know that your faith was not unwavering and that you still chose to sin. Total depravity is like having to get a 100% average to pass for the semester and you get a 99 on the first exam. I don't care how many 100%'s you get after that you still will not qualify because your grades just aren't good enough even if they are the best in the school. it doesn't mean everyone would get the same score , it just means everyone would fail.
     
    #14 Artimaeus, Oct 10, 2004
  15. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    The doctrine of total depravity is not that all sinners are 1% depraved, it is that they are totally depraved, i.e., 100% depraved. The doctrine is false, and I know that it is false because as a child I was not 100% depraved, and neither were any of my friends.

    [​IMG]
     
    #15 Craigbythesea, Oct 11, 2004
  16. DeaconLew

    DeaconLew New Member

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    Then you may not be 100% saved. Jesus came to save that which was lost (Matthew 18:11). If you were not lost (totally depraved) then you can't be saved.

    For in Adam (even good lil' boys and girls) ALL die. Maybe you weren't in Adam? Hmmm.

    This is the result of looking at your fruit for "proof" that you are saved.

    -DeaconLew
     
    #16 DeaconLew, Oct 12, 2004
  17. DeaconLew

    DeaconLew New Member

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    LOST, pp. [from lose.]
    2. Ruined; destroyed; wasted...

    If there is a hole in the hull of a ship, is that ship seaworthy? One would say "it is ruined."

    -DeaconLew
     
    #17 DeaconLew, Oct 12, 2004
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