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Featured The Sinners Ability to CHOOSE

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 2, 2022.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    The Sinners Ability to CHOOSE

    There are some who pervert the plain teachings of the Holy Bible, in denying that God Created humans with the ability to CHOOSE, either to ACCEPT, or REJECT the Gospel Message for the salvation of their souls. It is argued, that this ABILITY for the sinner to REPENT and BELIEVE, and become BORN AGAIN, is a Gift from God, and limited to the ELECT. This teaching is what the Apostle Paul calls in Galatians, “another gospel, which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ” (1:6,7). Those who suggest that this is the Bible’s teaching, will ignore all passages from the Bible that very clearly show that it is NOT Biblical, and must be rejected as a man-made error, which is held by a few, who suppose they know better than the Lord Himself!

    Jesus Christ, God Incarnate, taught very clearly in the Bible, that it is sinful humans, who REJECT the Gospel Message for their salvation, and NOT because God only WILLS that the ELECT, which is few in number, are saved.

    In Matthew chapter 23, Jesus speaks some very hard words against the “scribes and Pharisees”, who were perverting the simple Message of the Bible, as some do today. To these Jesus says:

    “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!” (verse 37)

    Clearly that Jesus DESIRES that these same people who He is pronouncing Judgement against, would accept salvation for their souls. But they were NOT WILLING! Not only did these have a FREE WILL, but were ABLE to REJECT salvation!

    In John chapter 5, Jesus is speaking to the Jews who were trying to murder Him, for claiming EQUALITY with God the Father, and working on the Sabbath Day. He says to these Jews:

    “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO COME to Me that you may have life” (verses 39-40)

    Like Matthew 23, here we have the Gospel Message for their salvation, being REJECTED by these Jews.

    In Matthew chapter 22, we read of the Parable of the Wedding Feast, where those originally INVITED, made excuses, and REJECTED the INVITATION. (verses 1-7). In verses 8-10, we read:

    “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests”

    Clearly that the OFFER of salvation is an INVITATION for ALL SINNERS, and NOT just the ELECT, as is FALSELY taught by some!

    In Acts chapter 7, we read of the great Sermon by Stephen, the first Martyr of the Christian Church, those who were present, were told by Stephen:

    You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always RESIST the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you” (verse 51)

    Yet some teach that God’s Saving Grace in salvation, is IRRESISTIBLE! Yet another FALSE teaching!

    In Acts chapter 13, we have Paul and Barnabas who were trying to share the Gospel with some Jews, of whom we read:

    “But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul” (verse 45)

    To these same Jews, who were BLASPHEMING and OPPOSED what Paul was saying to them, Paul says,

    “Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you REJECT it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (verse 46)

    Not only did these Jews REJECT the Gospel, but they CONSIDERED THEMSELVES UNWORTHY OF ETERNAL LIFE, it was NOT God, because they were NON ELECT, Who so considered them!

    In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul tells us,

    “The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because THEY DID NOT RECEIVE the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (verses 9-12)

    This is what Paul means in Romans 9, “Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens” (verse 18).

    It is because sinners REJECT the Gospel Message for their salvation, that God will REJECT them for salvation. To say that God only INTENDS to save SOME, and REJECTS the greater majority, is a LIE! These passages from the Holy Bible, show that this teaching is FALSE.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you said negates the fact people are not able to come to Christ unless God first intervenes in their lives.

    Your misguided obsession with challenging the doctrines of grace has been thoroughly rebuked in every similar thread you have started.

    At this point, it is an intellectual embarrassment to start another. But, here in America you are free to continue to embarrass yourself as often as you like.

    peace to you
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    When I am locked in a prison cell, I am confined to the parameters of the cell. I can choose to get up from my bed and go to the toilet. If I have been given something to read, I can read the book. But, my freedom is confined to whatever the warden has determined for me.

    Failure to acknowledge that all humanity is enslaved by sin and confined (locked) in the cell of sins choosing, leads people (like sbg) to imagine that there is a vast array of choices at mankinds disposal, including the choice to break free of the shackles, unlock the key to the cell, walk past all the guards, climb out of the dungeon, and exit the prison of sin. The idea that humans can do all that, is quite silly.

    What is needed is for someone who is all-powerful to choose to break into sins prison, go through the prison, find my door, unlock my door and then personally extract me from the prison. Even my cowering in the corner of my cell saying "who are you Lord" will not prevent the covert operation from being successful. The Holy Spirit will extract me, though I fight back...fearing that something even worse than sin is grabbing me. It is only after the Holy Spirit has extracted me, brought me into the Kingdom of God and cared for me that I can respond fully in belief that I have indeed been freed from the prison of sin.

    Scripture fully supports this analogy. Passages have been quoted, over and over, to express this truth. Yet, there are still some here that insist it was their choices that freed them from the dungeon of sin. Honestly, such thinking is, in my opinion, delusional and extremely pridefilled. How I wish that such thinking were no more, but I suppose as long as sin is still lurking, humans will harbor thoughts of their own personal grandeur.

    May we acknowledge that our salvation is 100% God's doing and choosing.
     
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  4. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    the trouble predestination promoters/deniers of free will have is that SOMEONE shared with them the Gospel ... that disciple chose to surrender to The Spirit to do it. (Luke 9:23) They crucified their flesh, took up their cross and followed Jesus which that day took them to the referenced person to bring to them the Good News of salvation and their personal testimony which is the other half of the overcomer. The blood of The Lamb and the word of their testimony (Rev 12). If that choice to surrender wasn't made, there'd have been no evangelizing because those things are of the spirit not the flesh. (1 Cor 2:14)

    There's a failure to recognize the difference between KNOWING (from the Beginning) who will choose to accept and who will choose to reject ... and the puppeteer-like causing to accept or reject. The Word is pretty clear ... God wants ALL to be saved. (1 Tim 2:4) Does that mean all WILL?

    We've all been given the measure of faith to believe. (Romans 12:3) Where we choose to place that faith is the eternal difference.

    I believe every human has been offered the choice one way or another. The knowledge of God is in His creation. The knowledge of man's evil heart is also realized by observation and experience. We eventually recognize we are bad, but Good made the things around us ... so we choose to pursue that knowledge, or continue to reject it.
     
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    nothing of what you say here, as elsewhere, answers what the Bible says as I have shown in the OP. all you do is to restate what is your personal theology, which is NOT what the Bible actually says. It is VERY CLEAR to those without any BIAS, that Jesus Christ and the Apostles teach that ALL SINNERS have the ability to either ACCEPT or REJECT that Gospel for their salvation. Those, like you who keep on arguing against this, do so from their theology, and NOT the Bible, as I have very clearly presented!
     
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  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Romans chapter 1 is clear that people CHOOSE to REJECT the Creator God of the Holy Bible, and do as they please/will, which is directly against what the Bible says. This requires people to CHOOSE, which is what the Bible teaches from Genesis to Revelation. Like you, I believe that passages like 1 Timothy 1:6, are clear that God DESIRES that the entire human race were saved, as He did in Ezekiel, and elsewhere in the Old Testament; but humans are prone to sin and disobey what the Lord says, as do those who are even born again. Just because God DESIRES the salvation of ALL, does not mean that every single human being will be saved, because unlike "reformed theology", all sinners must first "REPENT and BELIEVE" before they can be saved, something those like AustinC wrongly assume is a "work" for a sinner to repent!
     
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  7. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    that's what Jesus preached in his first sermon. Mark chapter 1. not just believe ... repent and believe.

    Does Jesus CAUSE that or invite that? Stands at the door and knocks. Rev 3

    That doesn't sound like bust the door down and enter whether welcomed or not.
     
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    the reference you make from Revelation chapter 3, is not to the world of lost sinners, but, as the context shows, to the Churches that had departed from following the Lord and the teachings of the Bible. They are Letters to the Seven Churches, and not the whole world. This verse has been misused by some, as in "invitation" to all sinners, for salvation.
     
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  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    the trouble predestination promoters/deniers of free will have is that SOMEONE shared with them the Gospel

    No one that I know has a problem with that.

    in fact, the people that I know mark it up to the Providence of God.

    One of the pastors that I work with from Nepal was a Hindu Priest converted by reading a Gospel Tract. Again, God using others to accomplish His Divine Will!!
     
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  10. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Does Jesus CAUSE that or invite that? Stands at the door and knocks. Rev 3

    That Passage has everything to do w the Church to which it was addressed ie they had locked out Christ from their worship.

    it is not an evangelistic passage per say. It is addressed to Xians
     
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Indeed God uses many means to reach the unsaved lost with His Wonderful Gospel. However, God did not "make" this Hindu priest become a believer in Jesus Christ, he would have done so by the conviction from the Holy Spirit, reading the Gospel tract. He could have rejected this.
     
  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    We've all been given the measure of faith to believe. (Romans 12:3)

    This has been covered multiple times

    faith is only given to the elect of God. Otherwise all would be saved

    the “us” is believers

    see II Thess 3:2
     
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  13. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    The new birth is an awakening by God where the sinner comes to their senses and realizes that they are bound for hell and that they are now born again needing Christ as their savior.

    they then repent and believe because they have been set free from their bondage and are no longer dead in sins, but have been made alive to Christ.

    that my friend is biblical salvation
     
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  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What is very clear is that you teach salvation by works, the very opposite teaching of the Bible.

    No person who knows God and His Word will agree with your false assertion.

    Oh how I wish you had eyes to see.
     
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  15. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Romans chapter 1 is clear that people CHOOSE to REJECT the Creator God of the Holy Bible, and do as they please/will, which is directly against what the Bible says.

    You are correct

    unregenerate man is dead in sin and trespasses. We only know sin at that point, righteousness, faith and peace are promises of the Gospel message to the elect of God.

    the nonelect know nothing of righteousness, Faith and the peace of God. Neither do they care
     
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  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    God changed his heart granting to him faith to believe the Gospel. When God changed his heart, salvation was assured
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    you mean that God CAUSES them to "come to their senses"?

    If they "repent and believe", then they are SAVED AT this time, and not AFTER this, they call on the Lord for salvation! You are putting the horse before the cart!

    Read Acts chapter 2, where Peter preaches, and those who heard, were "cut to the heart (the same as being CONVICTED by the Holy Spirit [John 16:8-10]" (verse 37), and they respond by saying, "“Brothers, what shall we do?”. Notice the word DO. Peter did not say, DO nothing, because God has already ENABLED you to be His ELECT! Intead, Peter says "“REPENT (that is DO) and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (be born again)". THIS is the Bible Gospel, not what you present!
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    again I say, this means that God has the faith to believe for the elect sinner, which is complete rubbish!
     
  19. Two Wings

    Two Wings Well-Known Member
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    Jesus said repent and believe.

    He invited ... didn't come crashing in.

    there's a difference between God's KNOWING who'll recognize, repent, believe and confess ... and compelling/forcing that decision to receive.

    Go and make disciples is busy work if God is forcing all this to happen. Where there is love there is freedom. God is love. There is freedom to reject. Wide is the gate which leads to destruction ... many take that gate. Narrow is the gate which leads to life. It's the exception ...

    But it's clear God has made provision for all and even says He desires ALL to have salvation. But He says He doesn't force it. IDK how it can be clearer than that.

    The only argument I see is this quibble about declaring a work to be in the receiving of the gift.
     
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  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Ok. You want Acts, here it is


    Acts 5:31

    If the Christ-centeredness of Acts 4:12 is not sufficiently monergistic, Acts 5:31 begins to fill in the details: the exalted Lord gives repentance.

    31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, ——to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

    Acts 11:18

    God’s salvation comes to the Gentiles, just like it came to the Jews—God granted repentance that leads to life.

    18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying,—— “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
     
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