The Sinners Prayer

Tim, right on!

I can cite a number of incidents where someone would express doubt about their orignial conversion experience. At first I was tempted to try to reassure the by helping them recall that experience. I have ditched that approach. I now believe that when someone doubts their salvation, the worst thing you can do is to reassure them. I could be wrong, and I don't know what's really in their heart.

The same applies to folks who confess Christ as Lord,but can't go back to a date and time.

So my approach is to tell them, "I don't want to know what happened back there years ago. I want to know where you are right now. Do you confess Christ as your Lord right now? Do you understand that you are a sinner? Do you understand that you cannot be good enought to earn salvation? Do you trust Christ alone for your salvation? Do you desire to follow him and be obedient to his teachings? Do you desire to study the Word? Do you desire to fellowship with God's people? Do you desire to worship God?

The answer will help you understand where he is spiritually, and will help them as well.

Or, a simple explanation of the gospel: Christ's death, burial and resurrection, plus some statements about sin and its penalty. Maybe all you need to do at this point is ask one question: "Do you believe this?"

I read a story about a missionary who was preaching to a group in Africa. In the middle of his sermon, a man stood up and said, "I've heard enough. I believe." When the Holy Spirit is active, just about any witness will work. When the HS is not, it's like banging one's head against the wall.

 

I agree... and sometimes we as pastor's need to recognize this... If they are God's HE will bring them back...

BTW, we are gearing up for revival next week, and I am fired up and ready to go!! (If you can't tell) The church has been in revival for a few weeks already... new people coming, one man announcing his call to the ministry last month... and people came to me last Sunday after the sermon....telling me they have decided to serve Jesus no matter what! And asked for prayer....

Let me tell you this... I preached basically this thread last Sunday...
At the end of the sermon, I gave an altar call... I told people if they need prayer, and want me to pray with them to come take my hand... (like I tell them every Sunday, sometimes they want to pray by themselves, so I give them room)....

We started singing "Just as I am" We completed the 1st verse, and I went right to the last verse... and told them I would explain in a minute...

After we were done singing, I asked them if they knew why I did that... they looked puzzled, I said, "if the Holy Spirit can't draw you up here in 2 verses, there is no use singing 4 more, to manipulate you up here...." Then I said, I would hang around the front of the church after church if someone needed prayer for anything...

I had 2 people come up AFTER services....

 

It sounds like you have a great ministry going Tim. I'll be praying for you and your church next week!

 

Thanks! We will need it!

Come join us... Cleveland is only 5 hrs away!!!

 

I like this approach.. I can actually see Jesus doing this...

 

What if a pastor felt led by the Holy spirit to continue four or five verses? That then wouldn't be manipulation, but rather his being led by the spirit to continue.

 

Best Evidence

There's not much difference between this and looking at the moment you repented of your sins and confessed the Lord Jesus Christ. You're still looking at your works.

There's nothing wrong with looking back to that moment. Paul took the Romans back to their baptisms to remind them of their faith and their responsibilities to live righteously. It's good to be reminded. The preacher you quoted was exactly right, Satan does want you to doubt.

So, what is the best assurance of salvation? Looking back on your conversion and the prayers you prayed are assuring, no doubt, and much better than self examination in my mind, but that's not the best assurance. (Self examination is never assuring to me anyway. I'm too well aware of my sin to find comfort in myself, and I've never understood how anyone can look at himself and NOT smite his breast and cry out, "Have mercy upon me a sinner!" Self examination only drives me to altar.)

The best assurance is the witness of the Holy Spirit, Rom. 8:16. Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine. Oh what a foretaste of glory divine! Honestly now, is this your feeling after self examination? If so, you probably should look a little closer.

So how does one gain the best assurance? Those who decry the "Sinner's Prayer" won't like the answer. You pray for it. Those of you who have children. If they ask fish of you, will you give them snakes? If they ask bread, will you give them stones?

If you, being evil, no how to give good gifts to your own children, won't our Father in Heaven give us the Holy Spirit if we ask Him? Luke 11:13.

 

Works gives evidence of the inward salvation....
Works does not produce salvation...
But provides outward evidence...
This is why James says Faith without works is dead.
We don't work to get saved, we work because we are saved...
Ephesians 2:8-10
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The works does not save us, but God has ordained that we produce good works once we are saved...
And since it is ordained by God, there is no way around it.
God said it, not me...

Paul tells us to examine ourselves...

• 2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
• Or in the NLT… (5) Examine yourselves to see if your faith is really genuine. Test yourselves. If you cannot tell that Jesus Christ is among you, it means you have failed the test.

Not Pray and ask for proof.. what type of proof would you look for anyway?

In Matt. 7 Jesus gives four examples...

nLost
nLost are on Broad way
nLost produce Bad fruit
nLost have Profession but no evidence of God’s will
Lost build on Worldly principles

Saved
Saved are on narrow way
Saved produce good fruit
Saved have profession plus do God's will
Saved build on Godly principles

If a person is constantly on the Broad way, and not sensitive to the sin in their lives, if they are consistantly producing bad fruit, if they can feel comfortable saying no to God, and if they build their life on Worldly principles, there is no evidence in their life that they are saved...

These are Christ's characteristics of one of his... This is not my characteristics.. .read Matt 7....
When a person gets saved, they are a new creation...
If there is not a new creation, they are not saved.

 

Of course, if the Spirit leads....

but just to do it for the sake of doing it to produce results is manipulation.

 

After searching for it for the last several weeks, I just found my monkey wrench on the farm, today. And now I am going to have to hunt for it all over again, after this post.

Consider this. The so-called sinner's prayer, as found in Lk. 18:13b1, is today not a prayer of 'faith', or a prayer of or for salvation, but rather an acknowledgement of UNbelief.

See I told you I'd have to hunt for that monkey wrench, all over again, after throwing it into this thread!

Ed.

P.S. BTW, I really did find my large missing adjustable wrench three days ago!

 

(My emphases on another's quotes)

Originally 'posted' by Paul:

Not to comment on Joel Osteen in any way, but how about Paul?

Is "he" one of those braggarts?

Does "he" make you sick??

Ed

 

I always thought the point of the Sinner's Prayer was to introduce a new Christian to talking to God through prayer. I mean, when you first become a Christian, you don't really know what you should say to God. Being led in the Sinner's Prayer is a good way to make sure your first real conversation with God acknowledges the fact that you are a sinner and need Him and the salvation he offers through Jesus Christ. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do agree that some of the televangelists use it like a band-aid on a wound, though. "Here, if you feel lousy about yourself and what you're doing with your life, just repeat after me..." Yeah, right...we all know that's not going to do anything for anybody. You never know how many people might sincerely pray with them, though, so you can't just throw it as useless outright. :thumbs:

 

Well said, youngmom4! :thumbs:

 

I've heard preachers say that if you can't remember the day you were saved (aka the day you prayed the sinner's prayer), then you probably aren't. It was, after all, your "spiritual birthday".

It seems to me that this would be an easy task for someone who is led to Christ later in life, but an unfair statement for those of us who were taught about salvation from our parents as a process through childhood. Such statements, though, caused some doubt in my younger years, and I occasionally wondered if I should be "re-baptized" in case I wasn't saved when I was baptized at a young age.

 

First of all, I didn't say that the young man in my SS class made me sick. I said that about Joel Osteen.
Second, I don't think that Paul believed that "he" saved anyone. I think he was referring to the preaching of the gospel and the fact that God had brought in the Gentiles (moved to jealousy).


1Cr 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not {come to} know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

 

It's not necessarily the use that bothers me. It is as you said, the abuse that is so dangerous.

 

Right, and like I said earlier in response to Webdog... even if you use a mass invitational prayer, you should follow up the responses with one on one counselling.... This ensures the "technique" is not abused...

If a person needs help praying to their father the first time, by all means help them...

But remind then that it is not the prayer that saves, but it is Faith in Christ alone.

And if they ever have doubts, take the doubts to the cross... not to the prayer.

 

Heck I can remember that day like the back of my hand after all it was the best day of my life. but I cant remember exactly what day it was. As far as the sinners prayer I was saved walking down the street I asked God if he existed and if he heard me and if he did what I needed to do to follow him (In short) He revealed himself I said i was sorry and got rid of the stuff he told me to and been following since. he urged me to go to the alter that sunday and I was lead through the sinners prayer by a preacher but I was saved 3 days prior. I didnt get baptised for another 4 months.

 

If the Holy Spirit 'can't draw anyone up there' with NO verses why is there 'use' singing 2 to manipulate them up there?

 

Gotta wake em up somehow to let them know it is time to go home!!:laugh:
So we let em stretch some before the strenous walk to the car...:thumbsup: