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The ThM Degree

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Martin, Mar 26, 2005.

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  1. Broadus

    Broadus Member

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    I just took a gander at TEDS's online catalog and it appears that their PhD in theological studies requires the MDiv. It is Wheaton at which the MA built upon the BA would gain entrance into that theological school's PhD program in biblical and theological studies http://208.56.13.230/prospective/degrees/PhD_Website/admission.html .

    BTW, such a PhD from Wheaton may be a good one to gain acceptance into a secular university as the "token" conservative.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     
    #21 Broadus, Mar 27, 2005
  2. JGrayhound

    JGrayhound New Member

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    I don't think that any program at NOBTS would be harder than SEBTS.

    Actually the entrance standards at NOBTS for the PhD is easier than SEBTS or SBTS, not requiring an MDiv. You only need an MA at NOBTS, which is very weak, IMO.

    The PhD at Southern is definitely the most competitive of all the SBC schools.
     
    #22 JGrayhound, Mar 27, 2005
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==You know, I noticed that in the NOBTS catalog but I don't think it is weak. If you look at the MA programs NOBTS offers (which allows one to enter their PhD programs) they are very heavy in greek/hebrew. Their MA/Biblical Studies degree require between 11 and 12 hours of greek or hebrew (depending upon your concentration). I doubt my MA, from Liberty, would enable me to get into NOBTS's PhD program. Seems like they have their own little system going. Their MA/Theology is much the same way. It requires undergrad greek/hebrew and further graduate study in languages. The MA/Theology is 51 hours, the MA/Biblical Studies is 55 hours.

    As for entering the PhD program, I am not familiar with SBTS's standards. NOBTS, however, requires at least ten hours of greek and hebrew (each) and nine hours of German, Latin, or French. Then there is a required second non-Biblical language that must be gained before the oral comprehensive examination (defined by 5 semester hours in that langauge). I don't know....maybe it is not as bad as I thought. Now that I am typing this out it does not look so bad. I don't know, we will wait and see what happens.

    I don't think I have ever had a change of mind in the middle of a post before????

    In Christ.
    Martin.
     
    #23 Martin, Mar 27, 2005
  4. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    NOBTS is doubtlessly a quality seminary, but I wouldn't be scared away from doing a degree emphasis because the requirements seemed too high. If you do well in you language studies at the MDiv level, and especially if you continue with the ThM, I am confident that you will be equipped to handle whatever New Orleans requires.


    ==I pray you are right. I just re-examined the requirments at NOBTS, maybe they are not as bad as I thought. For some reason I thought they required more than they do. Maybe I misread it. Seems to be very simular to SEBTS's requirements. Don't know.


    I'm not sure, though, that a PhD in systematic theology would be the best route for teaching in a secular university. One in philosophy, history, or perhaps biblical studies may find more open doors. I'm really not sure, but it may be something you want to investigate.

    ==Not thought about that, but you may have a point. I will look into that, thanks.


    Also, a pastor friend once made the observation that completing the MDiv is much more difficult than talking about a PhD!

    Thanks.
    Martin.
     
    #24 Martin, Mar 27, 2005
  5. RandR

    RandR New Member

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    Depends.
    Most places it is a one year research and writing degree after the M.Div.
    Some places, DTS for example, do not offer the M.Div. There, the ThM is four years, and is their core degree.
     
    #25 RandR, Mar 27, 2005
  6. PatsFan

    PatsFan New Member

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    Religion departments of some secular universities offer PhD programs students can enter with BAs. I've often wondered how these programs differ from PhDs offered by seminaries in terms of content? A friend of mine was working on such a degree at the University of Iowa, I think. (She got into the program with just a B.A. and was ABD- -unfortunately for her).
     
    #26 PatsFan, Mar 27, 2005
  7. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Seminaries are some what of a joke! They ought to just admit that the M.Div. is really an undergraduate degree.

    For a kid who wants to earn a Ph.D. in Theology from an evangelical school, he is almost obligated to go the long route, except for at BJU.

    An undergrad Bible degree with Greek and perhaps Hebrew should qualify one for admittance into a three year Ph.D. program. Shame on the seminaries for denying this option. Protecting their turf!

    If I could do my undergrad over, I would have added German to the mix and applied to a three year Ph.D. program. But where? Name the Evangelical Seminary or University that has this option outside of BJU?

    I would have been forced to go to Duke, Drew, Emory, Loyola, Marquette, etc.

    What a shame.

    My solution? Take 60 credits in liberal arts at the local university, then start the three year seminary degree. Upon completion of the first two years, earn the B.A. degree. Upon completion of the third year, earn the M.Div. Now we would be on the same pace as the secular degrees, and could enter the Ph.D. program of our choice.
     
    #27 Paul33, Mar 27, 2005
  8. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Throw this in the mix.

    Seminaries generally want scholars who are also trained as ministers who can in turn train young ministers--that is purpose of the MDiv as the "work horse" basic first professsional degree.

    Note that sometimes you will find a "bright and upcoming star" in the university who is under 30 as a PhD. But, most of the time a PhD/ThdD in the sem. will have been out in the pastoral ministry and "young" is around 40. There is a "method in the madness" if you will.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #28 Rhetorician, Mar 28, 2005
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Paul,

    I just looked @ Wheaton's program!

    I agree w/Broadus!!! If you want the short route then you ought to go to Wheaton' if you can get there, stay there, and afford it after you get there? But, if you are going to try to teach seminary or grad school of religion or Bible college or small liberal arts christian college, they are going to want a "trained minister" probably? Hence you are thrown back on the basic MDiv/ThM route. It is a "pay me now or pay me later" scenario it seems.

    May the Lord guide you as you make decisions that can change your whole life.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #29 Rhetorician, Mar 28, 2005
  10. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    I want a one year MDiv like Paul is getting!

    Where do you get one of those?

     
    #30 El_Guero, Mar 29, 2005
  11. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    I don't think it exists!
     
    #31 Paul33, Mar 29, 2005
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