Featured The Truth about the Lord's Day

Quite the logic you have here. You argue from the standpoints of: a negative, of silence, and most of all "the imagination of Jesus," as if you could know what he imagines--how absurd!

What you don't do is base any of your arguments on Scripture. It is all speculative. They are just imaginative ideas--all your own prejudicial ideas that you have come up with. They have been affected more by your own "religion," culture, and up-bringing then by Scriptural study. You have presented me nothing of any substance that is based on Scripture.

There is no command given in the Bible to keep the Sabbath, at least not for Gentile believers.
There is no command for anyone to worship on the Sabbath--anywhere.
The Sabbath was meant for rest, not for worship. Worship and rest are not the same.

 

I was in the Spirit on 'the Lord`s day' = I was in the Spirit on 'the day of the Lord'.

Simple really.

 

kyredneck,

re: "Simple really."

Absolutely. The home's basement or the basement of the home - - both phrases mean the same thing.

 

I beg your pardon!

Who <<argue from the standpoints of>> the <absurd>, <<<There is no command for anyone to worship on the Sabbath--anywhere>>>?!

Who <imagine ... a negative, of silence>>, <<<There is no command given in the Bible to keep the Sabbath, at least not for Gentile believers>>>?!

Which, is <absurd>?

To warranted and legitimate ARGUE ON ALL AND ONLY BIBLE, "Had Jesus meant that his Church should not keep the Sabbath, then a direct command to the effect could be expected. Would Jesus not, while He wanted the Sabbath no longer to be kept, have positively referred to the “new Day of Rest” the First Day of the week? He would! That or anything nearly of the sort Jesus never did – specifically NOT in the form of the claim of being Lord of the Sabbath or in the form of his resurrection. And that quite plainly protests that Jesus never imagined the Sabbath to be replaced or abrogated, but constantly had its improvement – through his own doing – in mind",

OR,
to absurdly preclude the above is <logic> that <<argue from the standpoints of: a negative, of silence, and most of all "the imagination of Jesus," as if you could know what he imagines ...>>> and that the while I argue that that IS NOT what Jesus would have <imagined>.

Honesty and dishonesty never are absurd. “That or anything nearly of the sort Jesus never did”, I, said!

 

Yes.

But 'hehmera tou Kyriou' and 'Kyriakeh hehmera' mean totally different things.

Nevertheless in the end, I believe, they are going to be the one and same "SABBATH DAY OF THE LORD GOD" --- as they HAD been when Christ ROSE from the dead "ON THE SABBATH".

 

Only in your imagination.
According to your logic:
--Had Jesus wanted us to drive in cars he would have given us a command to allow us to do so.
--Had Jesus wanted us to use computers he would have given us a command allowing us to do so.
You base your arguments on silence not on Scripture.
The command to keep the Sabbath was only given to the Jews, the nation of Israel. Prove otherwise.
There was never any command to worship on the Sabbath. If so, give Scripture.
Otherwise stop with your needless rants. This is a debate forum. If you can't debate then why do you post?

If Jesus wanted to stop Gerhard from being drunk he would have specifically mentioned his name in the bible, but He didn't; therefore it is perfectly okay for Gerhard to be drunk.
(I am not saying you are, but this is the logic you are using).

Jesus never commanded any believer to keep the Sabbath.
That you must prove.

Jesus never commanded the believer to keep the Sabbath.
Where is your proof. Stop your ranting and give Scripture.

To be honest is to present scripture for what you believe.
Your case is not scriptural and therefore you cannot present scripture.
There is no place where the NT believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath. If there was, you would be able to give it.

 

Thank you, DHK,
your refutation is as perfectly sufficient and self-explanatory, as it is perfectly self-destructive.
Why don’t you, <<present scripture for what you believe>>?
Answer:
<<Your case is not scriptural and therefore you cannot present scripture.>>
So you resort to a negative of untruth, and most of all, to your OWN likes and dislikes of what Jesus, according to YOU, imagined, as if you could know what He imagined BUT NEVER EXPRESSED concerning the Sabbath.

I shall not repeat the several places I often already have shown where the NT believer is commanded to keep the Sabbath. It is there for anyone to read FOR HIMSELF.

Only the final ‘place’ I will mention:
The NEW Sanctuary wherein no man BEFORE had lain, The Holy Ark of The Covenant of Grace wherein the Shekinah, that is, the Presence of Yahweh Elohim, resided over His Holy One whose “soul He left not in hell; whose flesh in death He let see no corruption”, but Whom, “in the fullness of the Sabbath Day”, He “by the exceeding greatness of his power which He worked IN CHRIST, RAISED FROM THE DEAD”, “AND FROM ALL HIS WORKS THE SEVENTH DAY, RESTED.”

Thanks so much, once again, DHK; I’ll treasure your reply forever.
GE

 

He rested, GE, He rested.
There is no worship mentioned, only rest.
You have found no command where NT believers are commanded to worship on the Sabbath or any other specific day of the week.
In fact the early church worshiped on every day of the week--daily.

Consistently, the elect of God "rested" on the Sabbath. They never worshiped on that day; they rested. It is a day of rest, and according to Exodus 31 it was given specifically to the Jews--a sign of their covenant between Jehovah and the nation of Israel and their generations forever--not to the Gentiles or even Gentile believers.
It was never given as a day of worship to anyone.

Jesus is Lord of every day.

 

OK, DHK; You find no Command in the fact Jesus rose from the dead "on the Sabbath Day"; I find it an absolute Commandment for remembering the Lord of the Sabbath for the Lord's Day.

Of course there is no way we might ever understand one another --- or accept one another's 'viewpoint'.

Again, OK, DHK; You find no Rest in the fact God WORKED on the Sabbath Day. I do. Moses also "saw Jesus' Day", and "worshipped", “rejoicing”.
Moses recorded "the LORD the Seventh Day REVIVED" --- and in "reviving", "rested". … for me, another Commandment --- compelling GOD-spoken Commandment to "remember the Sabbath Day".

It is a Commandment that God, Himself <CONSISTENTLY>, IN CHRIST JESUS : "the Seventh Day Sabbath RESTED".

"God THUS ..." <consistently>, "... concerning the day The Seventh Day" and NOT ONCE concerning another day, "SPAKE ... spake BY THE SON ... by the Son IN THESE LAST DAYS."

That for me and to me, is God's Commandment to remember his Holy Day, DHK, although clearly to you the truth of it is all so meaningless.

 

Is there a barrier in the English language GE?
Of course there is no command in the fact that Christ arose from the dead. It is a fact of history, not a command. The statement is declarative not imperative.

As far as Paul's command to remember the Lord's Table, it is not on the Sabbath, or on the first day of the week, or on any day. It is "as oft as you do this," or whenever you meet, which could be on any day.

In creation the Lord "ceased from his creative acts after six days." That is what is meant by "rest." He did no "work" per se. He wasn't tired. God is not a man that he should tire and hunger and need rest. He simply ceased from his creative acts.
That Moses rejoiced is a good thing. I am sure he rejoiced most days of his life. He lived close to God. How often do you rejoice?

And your point is??
Moses gave the law to the Jews, not to us.
There is no commandment to the Gentile believers to keep the sabbath.

There is no command for the believer to worship on the Sabbath; no command for the believer even to keep the sabbath.

Totally irrelevant scripture. It says nothing about the sabbath, and nothing about keeping it or worshiping on it.

Where is the command to keep or to worship on the Sabbath?
There is none!

 

Isn't it wonderful, DHK, that it isn't <imperative>, but convincing, persuading, convicting, overwhelming, <<declarative>> of <<a fact of history>> --- THE FACT OF ALL FACT?!

 

"Do not you let yourselves be condemned re your eating and drinking OF SABBATHS’-FEAST… (the Lord’s Supper) BEING SUPPLIED [‘epichorehgoumenon’] … Colossians 2:16-19.

12 While dead in your sins God who raised Christ from the dead forgave you all trespasses having quickened you together with Him. Nailing it to the cross and removing it altogether, Christ blotted out the damning law against us; and putting off and ruining the rulers and the authorities [of darkness 1:13], He publicly held them up to shame, triumphing over them in it. [If ye then be raised with Christ 3:1], THEN THEREFORE, don’t you let yourselves be judged and condemned by anyone (of the world 2:8, 20) in your eating and drinking or with regard to your eating and drinking of feast, whether of month’s or of Sabbaths’—all which shadows forth what soon must be, the BODY and SUBSTANCE OF CHRIST!

.......

Let no man not holding to the Head [but] puffed up by his fleshly mind, who conceitedly meddles in what he knows nothing about (the mystery—‘SACRAMENT’— which is Christ 1:28), with his pretentious humility and angelic worship beguile you (with enticing words 2:4) of your reward.
Because holding to the Head nourishment being ministered, all the Body (of Christ’s Own 1:18) by joints and bands [of faith 2:12 Hosea 11:4; peace Ephesians 4:3; and charity Colossians 3:14], and knit together (in love 2:2), will grow with the growth of God.

......

"Don't you let yourselves be judged by anyone in regard to your eating and drinking of Christ the Substance of Sabbaths' Feast either Lord's Supper of month's or Sabbaths' Feast, which are but the shadow of what imminently must come for you holding to the Head, the Body growing with the growth of God Christ being the Nourishment ministered."

 

... and you say you are a Protestant?!

I need not answer you. MANY and ABLE Reformed Protestant believers have thoroughly refuted what you claim here.

In any case, please make note of it for the future, I DO NOT ADHERE TO <<the law Moses gave to the Jews>>; ‘my’ Law is the Word of God “COME IN THE FLESH” from the dead and grave of Joseph of Arimathea, Jesus Christ Resurrected : the Lord and Law of the Christian.

 

"… the Sabbath .... my Father WORKS hitherto and I, WORK …”.

“God by the all-exceeding greatness of his power WORKED …” having reached POINT OF REST “… far above all principality [natural law of physics] and power and might … according to the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY POWER WHICH HE WORKED AND WROUGHT AND FINISHED RAISING CHRIST FROM THE DEAD.” Ephesians 1:19f

Christ’s Resurrection is the definition and declaration of GOD’S, REST. “And since JESUS gave the People of God, REST, there remains for them a Sabbath Day’s keeping of rest.”

You are quite right, <<<In creation the Lord "ceased from his creative acts after six days.">>>. “On the Seventh Day, He from all his works He had made / created, rested.”

To “rest” was God’s WORK OF AND “ON the day The Seventh Day”—mark well : AFTER the six days He had made everything He had created and concluded that it ALL was, “very good”.

So, Having created for six days, <<"the LORD ceased from his creative acts after six days.">> True.

That, is NOT <<what is meant by God’s, "rest.">>

God’s Rest was the culmination of the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY POWER through and in CHRIST—the Word and Voice of God in the beginning in Eden — which REDEMPTIVE WORKS of God in Christ are plainly recorded in the prophetic history of the Seventh Day in Genesis 2:2,3 and 3:8-24.

 

Hebrews 4:4 and 1:2,
"God THUS ..." <consistently>, "... concerning the day The Seventh Day" and NOT ONCE concerning another day, "SPAKE ... spake BY THE SON ... by the Son IN THESE LAST DAYS."

<<<It says nothing about the sabbath>>>???!!!

How is it supposed to say something about the Sabbath if not where it says "GOD THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY SPAKE"?!

Amazing!

 

You have a misunderstanding of this passage. In fact you just butchered it. Here it is again (in the KJV).


Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath, along with all other sabbaths were nailed to the cross. They were just a "shadow" of that which was to come, Jesus Christ. The real, Jesus Christ, has come. The Sabbath does not have to be kept. Shadows are not real. Jesus Christ is real. Since we have the real we don't need the shadow. The shadow is done away with. The Sabbath is done away with. That is the teaching of this verse.

 

No, I am not a Protestant. I am a Baptist who believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I maintain that there is no command in the Bible for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath Day. You have not shown one yet.
There is no command given to anyone to worship on the sabbath day; it was a day of rest.

 

"… the Sabbath .... my Father WORKS hitherto and I, WORK …”.

“God by the all-exceeding greatness of his power WORKED …” having reached POINT OF REST “… far above all principality [natural law of physics] and power and might … according to the WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY POWER WHICH HE WORKED AND WROUGHT AND FINISHED RAISING CHRIST FROM THE DEAD.” Ephesians 1:19f

Christ’s Resurrection is the definition and declaration of GOD’S, REST. “And since JESUS gave the People of God, REST, there remains for them a Sabbath Day’s keeping of rest.”[/quote]
There is no command for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath. You can quote the history of the Bible, but you can't point to a command for us to keep the Sabbath.
Even in the Scripture you point to, the Lord rested. Rest is not worship.

1. That is all historical. There is no command.
2. That is what God did; he ceased from his creative work.
3. Even though it says God rested; it does not say God worshiped. That would be absurd.
4. There is no command anywhere for anyone to worship on the Sabbath day. You are getting farther and farther away from the truth of God's Word.

 

Christ is our Sabbath. He is not a day, rather a person.
He is our rest. We rest in him. We rest in him every minute of every day. You have a sad life indeed if you have to wait for the Sabbath simply to have rest in Christ.
The Sabbath was nailed to the cross. It was but a shadow of the "real," that which was to come, which is Christ.

 

Re:
<<<Christ is our Sabbath. He is not a day,>>> is a contradiction in terms and reality.

<<<Christ is our Sabbath>>> is not Scripture; it is DHK's human supposition.

Re:
<<<He is our rest.>>>

That’s much better because that is SCRIPTURE --- Hebrews 3 and 4 Scripture.

Which SAME SCRIPTURE declares, “If JESUS gave them … the People of God … REST [‘katapausis’, “of God”, “tou Theou’]

“If JESUS gave them … the People of God … REST THERE THEREFORE REMAINS FOR (them) the People of God a keeping of the Sabbath Day” [‘apoleipetai tohi Laohi tou Theou Sabbatismos’].

The “Rest” is “OF GOD” “for to be entered” [‘eiselthehn eis autehn’] by the People of God.

The “Sabbath-Rest” is “a Sabbath-custom valid for the People of God” “BY REASON OF THAT JESUS GAVE THEM REST”.

The “Rest-of-God” is the CAUSE of the People’s “Sabbath Day’s-resting”; the People’s “Sabbath Day’s-resting” is EFFECT of “the Rest of God”; and “the Rest of God” IS “JESUS HAVING GIVEN THEM REST”.

Re:
<<<You have a sad life indeed if you have to wait for the Sabbath simply to have rest in Christ.>>>

You know nothing about my life or my happiness or sadness; and sarcasm won’t bring you nearer to acquaint yourself with me or with Jesus Christ, but is the cheapest form of judgment there is of another.

You seem to have had opportunity to taste and share the joy of God’s gracious gift of His Holy Day for his People’s enjoyment, gladness and rejoicing. You do know that the Song of Moses was sung on the Day-of-Deliverance when God had brought Israel out of the Land of Darkness and onto free ground on the other side of the Red Sea. And you do know that God let Christ ride the height of the earth through RESURRECTION because He honoured God’s Holy Day and called his Sabbath his delight.

Isaiah 56, 57 and 58 are as ‘New Testament’ as Mark or Matthew or John or Luke or Paul.

Re:
<<<The Sabbath was nailed to the cross. It was but a shadow of the "real," that which was to come, which is Christ.>>>

ABSOLUTELY!

The Sabbath was nailed to the cross AS CHRIST WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS AND IN HIM AND THROUGH HIM!

I have been saying THIS here on Babptistboard.com for years. You never noticed it.

NOT ONLY that <<<The Sabbath was nailed to the cross. It was but a shadow of the "real," that which was to come, which is Christ>>>, but that The Sabbath which WAS nailed to the cross, “IS a shadow”—“IS a specter”—“IS a glimpse of the REAL—the SUBSTANCE—the NOURISHMENT ministered WHICH IS CHRIST … THE HEAD” of the young Christian Church “GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD”. That which IS to come, even CHRIST”.

Yes! The Sabbath IS a shadow of Christ; and Christ’s Own will “shelter in the shadow of the Almighty”.

I have a joyful and Joy-filled life to overflowing, dear DHK, thank God for all his mercies. I shall despise none.