The undiscernibg Glenn Beck

Any aligning ourselves with them is sin. Look at it this way. Should be aligned with an antichrist as long as he is not dealing with religion? Or how about someone who practices witchcraft? The truth is we do not need these people to do what is of the Lord and with them we cannot do what is of the Lord. We are told to do all we do as unto the Lord. No one joining with these false teachers is doing the Lord's bidding. :thumbs:

 

To a point you are correct, but so many Christians are looking more to the government than God for help or to solve their problems.

 

I agree to a point, but then, our government may or may not be anything like Christian but we're called to be an integral part to the point where we are able. God gifted us in America with the opportunity to participate in and with our government. To the extent that we do so, we are part of the solution and will keep our government a representative one, of, by, and for the people. To the point where we abscond and run from participation because we may have to work with persons who are not wholly Christian, we abdicate our responsibility.

Romans 13 has some things to say about all this...

Rom 13:1-7 (ESV) Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

 

I do not think that is a strawman, that is what I see as the problem with the Glenn Beck Rally. Again, I cite Russell Moore and Reason TV (links I provided above) for reasons I make this conclusion. This was more of a religious "awakening" based upon nationalism than a Christian awakening based upon theology.

No strawman, it is a horrendous movement that I strongly oppose.

 

We cannot absolutely disassociate ourselves with the lost.

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Paul is actually telling us not to keep company with a "brother" that is a fornicator, covetous, or an idolater... Think about that for a moment, a Christian can commit idolatry. That is what this verse shows. Christians can sin just like anybody else and often do.

I don't know about you, but I cannot completely disassociate myself with the lost. I work with many lost people. When I can I try to witness to them. But we work toward a common goal in producing the product my company sells.

Now, there is a difference between a close relationship where you fellowship with a person, and I believe that is what Paul is speaking of. But if we had to completely disassociate ourselves with the lost we would have to come out of the world. You can't go to the grocery store to buy food for your family without coming in contact with many lost people.

And how are lost people going to get saved if we don't associate with them and tell them the gospel?

Do you know what the greatest criticism of Jesus was? That he associated with sinners.

Luke 5:29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.
30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Levi was a disciple of Jesus. He was also a former publican who were considered very sinful by the people. Levi made a feast and many publicans attended. When the Pharisees saw this they murmured against Jesus and his disciples for eating with sinners.

You have to be careful as a Christian not to look down and judge the lost. We were all lost sinners until we received Christ. We cannot completely disassociate ourselves with the lost, and we should be a light to them and tell them of Christ.

 

It is disassociating with the lost that is most hurting the church in America these days. Many would say that the church is suffering because we are too much like the world, but I see it the other way around. We have holy huddles, we frequent business where the owner is Christian, some of us barely know a lost person by name, or if we do, we avoid them like they are suffering from the plague!

Yet, in the gospel accounts, I see Jesus eating with sinners, calling tax collectors to be His disciples, allowing prostitutes to anoint His feet, hanging out with the party crowd, even making wine to supply their needs so the host would not be embarrassed. The Jews understood this aspect of Jesus very well... They brought it up at His mock trial and used it as evidence to crucify the King of all kings and Lord of all lords.

Paul says, "such were some of you..." And, indeed we were. Some of us... The one's who were not may have a difficult time understanding, but to those like myself, who have been radically saved from a horrible life, God's grace to "sinners" is amazing indeed.

 

Those passages are dealing with witnessing to them, not joining them in their efforts or groups. We are told to come out from amoung them, not join them.

 

yes Jesus did those things and we should also but those siunners did not jion with Him and the disciples. He was not part of their way. By the way the churtch IS like the world. Divorce in the church is not higher then the worlds average. It was the same for some time. In speaking with most who claim to be Christian their speech is no different then the world. So the problem is the church not world. Only when we decide to obey the word will we be looked upon as something to be sought after. We are to come out from amoung them.

 

Where do we draw the line? Not trying to be antagonistic, but this is a most difficult subject. If we try as hard as we can to not join lost people in their efforts or groups, we loose the Internet, the telephone, television, radio, automobiles, highway departments, most of government, schools, hospitals, water, power, gas, groceries, etc., etc., etc.


Some, down through the ages, have advocated enclaves where Christian people gather to live in community. The Ana-baptist community comes to mind, as do the English Separatists, the entire early American colony, and more recently, (though a false gospel) Mormons, Francis Schaeffer, etc.

I note that, for the most part, all have failed. Perhaps the Ana-baptists (Amish sect) have been the most successful since the Reformation. Are we to live like that? And, if so, what are you doing typing on the Internet? :flower:

 

Well as I said earlier, I have seen Glenn Beck maybe once. I haven't watched video of the rally, but if it is as bad as you say then I would have to agree with you.

From what I've heard it is not much different really from when Barack Obama spoke at the DNC a few years ago of how, "We worship an awesome God in the blue states" to standing ovation. No one seemed to have a problem with the mixture of politics and religion there, but we now know that his awesome god was one presented to him by Rev Wright. So I stand humbly corrected.