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The Use Of The Term " Offer " Dr. Tom Nettles

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Mar 7, 2006.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    These quotes are from his wonderful book : " By His Grace And For His Glory " . It is under the chapter regarding world missions and " bold evangelism " .

    Offer is not normally used in Scripture to describe how God gives his gifts to men ... Normally the word offer has too dormant a connotation to incorporate the vivid and active images picturing the effectuality of gospel preaching : the blind see , the dead live , the sleepers awaken , the sinners' resistance is aggravated , and a sweet-smelling savor rises to the nostrils of God . In apostolic examples of preaching , we see little of what might be called " offer ' and much of what is called " command . " Men are commanded to lay down arms and surrender to God , who demonstrates his sovereign holiness in all his actions -- creation , providence , and redemption -- and promises of forgiveness encourage those who truly comply . The unabridged version of the gospel simply cannot be contained within the normal connotations of the word off .
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Continuing on the Offer .

    Grace cannot be "offered ." Grace is purely within the sovereign preogatives of God , and those who argue for the validity of offering grace place themselves in the postion which they claim is so presumptuous in the hyper-Calvinist . To offer grace is to determine human responsibility from a supposed knowlege of the divine intentions toward all men in particular . Those who argue for general atonement on this basis pursue the same erroneous line of thought . Neither the evangelist nor the sinner need have guarantees that grace accompanies their interaction for the responsibility of either to be established . It is enough that both know that God commands all men everywhere to repent and has highlighted the absolute seriousness of the matter in the entire Christ event culminating in the resurrection from the dead . Grace is the sovereign bestowment of salvific blessings ; its appearance among men is purely a matter of sovereign discrimination . Such an understanding is nothing less than historic evangelical Calvinism . An " offer " of grace , therefore , presupposes a redefinition of the word grace .
     
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    What? You obviously haven't read the free will translation of the Bible. ;)

    8 For by your free will acceptance of the offer of grace you have been saved through your free will decision to have faith, and that is of yourselves; to decide to accept the gift of God, 9 so that you may boast. 10 For we have decided to be His workmanship, decided of our own free will to be created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand for those He foreknew would decide they want to walk in them.
     
  4. hamricba

    hamricba New Member

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    I am not certain, but I believe Iain Murray in his book, "Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism" described the refusal to talk about salvation "offered" as a tenant of Hyper-Calvinism. Can we make a distinction between grace offered and salvation offered? Hmmmmm......

    I also think Murray and Nettles would have some disagreements of John Gill, as a Hyper-Calvinist or not. I am almost certain from By His Grace For His Glory that Nettles would not put Gill in that camp, while I believe Murray noted some HC tendencies in Gill's theology.

    Still, you do bring to the table a most interesting topic.
     
  5. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member

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    Npet, that's a pretty good translation. That's from the ASV (Arminian Standard Version), right?
     
  6. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member

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    Hamrica, I think you're mixing apples and oranges here. Nettles seems to be talking about the means by which God imparts His gifts to man, including the gift of salvation. The old debate amongst Calvinists was over the doctrine of a "well-meant offer" which dealt with the nature of the gospel call (external call) to the reprobate. Some of the more extreme HC's believe that the Gospel should NOT be preached, or "offered", to the reprobate. Gill was very strong in his Calvinism, but I'm not sure if he went that far with it.

    Spurgeon opposed the "stronger" calvinism of Gill, who was his predecessor, and hence the accusations that Spurgeon was weak and used arminian methods from HC's.

    Spurgeon sided with Calvin himself on certain issues such as the understandig of "world" in John 3:16, that it is indeed of each and every person, but that the "desire" of God was to save all, but his justice required otherwise. Arminians like to use some of Spurgeon's comments on these issues as proof that he was some sort of closet arminian, just as the HC's accused. But the arminians are dead wrong on that, Spurgeon was a firm, 5 pointer, and gave nothing to the work or faith of man in salvation.
     
  7. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

    Sounds like an offer to me...?
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    The common understanding of the word offer smacks too much of a sales proposal . We , as Christians , don't offer salvation or grace . We declare , proclaim , set forth , present the truths of the Word . We tell sinners of their awful plight . We give them the bad news first . We show how they are condemned by the Law -- with no personal merit that they can cling to -- and then after they have been shown that , bring on the good news of Christ's sacrifice to their hopeless state . Christ will not refuse any who come to Him , but those who come are only those that the Father has enabled to do so .
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Rippon, thank you for placing the proper emphasis on the sinner's "awful plight," as you put it. Lost people are not ready for the gospel until they have been placed under condemnation. Sadly, too much soul-winning methodology sorta waves at the Law on the way by. My thanks.

    Tom B.
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    This is needed . Use it in relation to the Hyper-Calvinism thread .
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Part #2 of the above .
     
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member

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    ...so is this

    John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
     
  13. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
    Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
     
  14. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member

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    ". . .God in Christ speaking to you in the gospel-offer, and inviting you into the refuge."

    ---Charles Spurgeon, Treasury of David, Psalm 142:5
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Bump This Up !

    I couldn't have said it any better myself ... Hey , I did say that !
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    This topic is being discussed on another thread. I thought it would be worthwhile to revive this old thread on the same subject.
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    And this is a continuation of Dr. Tom Nettles's thoughts on the so-called offer.
     
  18. Evangelist-Bob

    Evangelist-Bob New Member

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    The use of the term "offer".

    Hello there. I've just joined the Baptist Board yesterday and I wish to make a comment on this thread.

    As an evangelist I often pass out tracts and speak to people about the Saviour. In one sense we do present to people the "free offer of the Gospel" but at the sime time I can understand the brother who said that we proclaim the Gospel and call people to repentance. Whatever term we use the important thing to remember is that, as Christians, we are under obligation to spread the Word - God then draws those who have been given to Jesus. John 6 v 37.
     
  19. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Notice that John 7:37 says, "If any man thirst..."

    Jesus prefaces "let him come to me" with that statement. Who are told to come to Him? The thirsty. It is the same in Isaiah 55:1.

    Alright, now let's say I stand up in a place full of people and declare I have food and water for them, if they are hungry and thirsty. It is free, there is no price put upon it. Who shall come and partake? The hungry and thirsty. That's who I am calling, that's who those blessings are designed for, and that is who shall come. Those who aren't hungry and thirsty aren't coming.

    Why are the people thirsty? Well, naturally dead men aren't thirsty for natural water. Spiritually dead men aren't thirsty for spiritual water. The people He is calling to through the gospel to partake of gospel blessings are people who have been made alive spiritually. And that is what the gospel is intended for and that is who the gospel calls. The gospel sets forth Christ, who is meat indeed and drink indeed for His people today.
     
  20. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Welcome Evangelist-Bob. You wasted no time getting into the discussion. Hope you enjoy your stay here. Let me suggest you go up to the top and post a few details about yourself, so the folks can give you a proper welcome..

    Include the juicy stuff, of course.
     
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