The Word, John 1

Not at all defending the idea that a book made of paper and ink is God but...

Does the book not contain the word of God?
How does God speak to us today?
Should we trust the contents of the book?
Should we have faith in the contents of the book?
What is revealed to us from the contents of the book?

The word of God is quick(alive) and powerful. It can discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. Maybe we can value it more than just paper and ink?

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.


Just rambling. Carry on.

 

No one is denying that the Bible is the word of God... it is just not the Word of God.. as John described in 1:1. That description clearly points to Jesus.

As C4K said in the other thread, when a Bible, any version, puts on flesh and dwells among us, then it may be considered.

Why did John choose to use the word, "Word"?

He was fighting against the gnostics...
That whole chapter defends Christianity against gnosticism.

They taught that the way to Heaven was through knowledge, and that everyone had a little light, but it was up to us to reach inside us and bring that light forward through learning.... They also taught that it was impossible for Jesus to have true human flesh since flesh is sinful...


Hence John says that God SENT the Word (the way people receive knowledge) into the world, as He sent the (Light)....And then shows them that he means Jesus, Jesus is the Word of God... the way God gives us knowledge about himself, and then he says that Jesus put on flesh... and we beheld his glory... his light....

John is explaining that we don't work to find the knowledge, or we don't work to find the light... God sent it to us as a gift. That Jesus had flesh, and that Jesus is that divine light....

John simply did what we should be doing...
He saw a group and made the Gospel relevant to them.

He took 3 of their basic teachings and showed them that they were wrong. Then he pointed them to Jesus. The real Jesus...

 

I'm late to the party, but I want to add a few things.

John 1 "Logos"...is one of the best-worded passages in the Bible, with many messages to many people. It is clear that this word “logos” was chosen by the Holy Spirit….as well as all other words.

1) In the 1st verse, it IS speaking of the spoken Word. Creation is the idea here. God spoke and the world was made by His own Words.

2) This is also hinting about God speaking and reveling Himself to mankind. I’m thinking of Heb 1:1 here as well.

3) Also it is addressing the "Greek" mind of that day. This is a long study into Greek mythology, but the short of it is this: For over 400 years the Greeks had debated if God could talk or speak to man. If God could, then what would God say to man was part of the debate. This became know as the Logos of God. John here is addressing the Greeks saying God has spoken God made the word with His Logos and also….God has spoken to US….through Christ, who is the Logos and you guys need to listen to what Christ has to say.

4) I feel this is addressing the Jewish mind as well. A contract was set my giving your word, in those days. God has spoken (logos) and the Jewish person should want to hear what He has to say.

5) John 1: 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. This clearly links the Word ..creation….God…to Christ.

6) I find no link at all to the written Word in John 1. I guess you could say that the written word is implied through revelation….but that would be a hard sale. Or maybe..the wording of John 1, nearly the same as Gen 1. But still this would be a hard sale. The creation story was well known to the Jewish person. John is using this line, because he KNOWS they know the story. This is not to say Gods Word (the Bible) is not the same as Gods spoken Word. It is the same. Yet the written Word is not addressed in this passage, that I can see.

*****
Addressing Fundies…

I feel there are 3 classes:

I called the 3 groups hyper-fundamentalist, cardinal-fundamentalist, and open-fundamentalist. In short, H-F have taken on more standards then there were 50 years ago. O-F has reviewed some standards and remove those they thought were wrong, and C-F is close to where it all started. Its really not as simple as that one line, but if I had to state it in one line this is how I would say it.

So...no all fundamentalist do not believe the same.

 

In truth my friend, what is the difference between the written Word of God and the Spoken Word of God??

Answer - Nothing for they are in essence, one and the same.

So there isn't any problem, scirpturally speaking to allow them BOTH to be in view.
The written Word of God is just as much Gods Word as the Spoke Word.

Though I do tend to agree with you but I also contend that religiously speaking to both the Jew and the Greek. Any words of God or gods spoken that were placed on something semi-permenant was considered hollowed, holy, and part of that deity; in so much as it was spoken by the gods or God and therefore was inherently divine itself. Thus terms like Holy Book, Sacred writtings, divine oracles and such.

However, we see John took it a step further than any other and stated what they knew in and according to the Word, THAT Word is Jesus who is God Himself and yet part of the Eternal Trinitarian Godhead. And God (the Father) sent forth the Word (Jesus) into the World wrapped in flesh like those in the world but He was not OF the world. John brings these views together by divine influence to set the stage and testify of the validity of Jesus being God and every bit the Word since the two show forth the very character and nature of God.

Both the Words of God (spoken and written) testify that Jesus is God and imparts life and who is to be worshiped.

 

You are probably right.
However a five dimensional Calculus scheme would probably
be more representative of the case. Such a five dimensional
Calculus scheme Could include the dimension
represented by the five points of Calvin
and the five anti-points of Arminus as well as the
fundamental dimension(s).

:godisgood:

Salvation is simple; God is complex.

 

Allan,

I see you had to go beyond John 1, to support your view. When you did this, you supported my view.

I never claimed the written Word was not the what it is. If you take the time and read my post again, you will find this was about John 1. In John 1, you will not find such support.

The point of the thread, as I understand it, is there support in John 1 to link "logos" to the KJV. I'm saying in context, it supports no written Word, be it KJV, NIV, Greek, or any other think, but may imply it at best. Please renote point 6.

 

5 calvin points mixed with 5 arminus points added to the 3 fundeamental classes???
This will overload your abacus and start a war or something.

BTW...I like your quote.."Salvation is simple; God is complex"

That says a lot.

 

I had not noticed your quote until Jarthur pointed it out.

Reminds me of the only class I've ever done anything other than stellar in in college, and that includes the three times that I've been to college. I've always carried a 4.0, never having missed so much as a single question in most classes, and even teaching an English comp teacher a little rule of English that she did not know.

But, in one of my Bible college classes, I was presented with a dilemma: we had a required class that I was already thinking about dropping, when I was presented with some notes followed by a test. The test contained one question: What are the 17 steps of salvation?

Well, I scored a 6 on the test by giving the correct, one step answer, then promptly dropped the class.

Salvation is simple, Ed.

There's not much that's quite so simple.

 

17? Yikes! Even the world has it down to twelve.

 

I like this salvation scripture:

Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saued.

I know before I could believe in my heart
that God raised Jesus from the dead, I had
to confess some sins & repent of them.

I know when I called Jesus 'My Lord' that
I had to follow him in Baptism. So maybe there
are '17 steps'.

But it is easy to take all 17 steps DOWN the
stair case if the Holy Spirit pushes you.
And you don't even have to know the name
of each step

Jesus'es Salvation is simple;
God is complex.


Here is my on-topic statement:

The Written word of God is the Holy Bible(s).
The Living Word of God is Messiah Jesus.

 

I missed where you stated they were the same.
However I ALSO stated the I agree with you, therefore it is only natural that I supported your view.

What I was getting at in the "additional" aspect is that it is cultural. Though it does specifically assign its main argument on the verbalized thought or idea, it is to also be taken into account the cultural understanding of the Written Word at that time as well. Take for instance how reverenced the Jews were in transcribing the Written Word and the cerimonial rituals that went into it. The washing and using a new pen (and so forth) each time they wrote the name of God, and the person had to 'prayed up' so to speak in regards to piety and holyness. They held the written word in high reverence as much as they cherished the verbal words of God. That was my point. And it does coinside with John 1 in a historical and cultural way. Just not evidenced in the written format.

 

How simple can it be made by God.........Jesus Christ is the living word and the Word was with God from the beginning and always....How much more simple can it be made.
God be praised and honored always........Holy, Holy Holy......
We find Jesus in scripture and person

 

OK I jumped to the end of the thread and SURELY some one must have pointed this out:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

What did "we" (Presumably the Apostles and eye-witness disciples) behold?​

A KJV Bible? NO, the "Only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth"​

Who was it?​

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Have I missed something?​

HankD​

 

yep it has been pointed out...

 

The Word, logos in Greek, on John 1:1 refers to Jesus Christ and the Scriptures according to the Rice Reference Bible.

The Word is Jesus Christ.
The Word is Jesus, the Son of God.
The Word is Jesus Christ who was made flesh.
The Word is the incarnated Word-speaking.
The Word is the incarnated Word-inspired.
The Word is Jesus-speaking.
The Word is Jesus-inspired.

Any thoughts?

 

Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
KJV