This shot and my view:

No Jab, No Phone: Unvaccinated to Have SIM Cards Blocked

How far can this go? Get your popcorn ready……..or your bunker.

 

I'm not so sure you can blame that solely on Trump. He was the first to ban travel even when high ranking Democrats were telling people to keep going out to eat and go to the movies. Many of the deaths came from nursing homes. (COVID-19 Nursing Home Data | Data.CMS.gov) It is hovering around 22% currently. When Trump was still in office, that number was in the high 40s. The nursing home situation is the biggest blunder to me. I'm by no means saying Trump handled things perfectly but many governors... Republican and Democrat completely failed their citizens and the elderly of their states.

 

I mean total. We have had about 601K, Brazil 496K, India 393K, Mexico 231K and Peru 190K. The highest death rates by 100K population are in much smaller countries: Peru 589, Hungary 387, Czechia 283, Montenegro 264. The U.S. rate is 179.
CDC COVID Data Tracker

This is the best data available. Of course the real numbers are unknown.

 

A lot of deaths we're caused by Trump's bungling our response to the challenge. There's a good reason why we've had the most deaths of any country. That reason was completely ineffective "leadership" by the previous administration.

 

I don't lay thje blame solely on Trump but he was supposed to be our national leader and failed miserably to slow down the pandemic. His Republican cohorts in the states must share a lot of the blame as wewll. Democrats do share some of the blame but not as muich as the Trump forces,

 

Just because you regurgitate dem propaganda doesn’t make it true.

Trump policies saved thousands, probably tens of thousands of lives. His push for the vaccine saved the world from this virus.

Dem policies killed thousands, maybe tens of thousands and continues to harm vaccination efforts.

peace to you

 

Simply not true.

 

Maybe Franklin Graham is finally seeing the light.
Rev. Franklin Graham: 'Covid can kill you and this vaccine could possibly save your life' (msn.com)

 

I don't necessarily agree with you but am willing to let the matter rest. We could probably go on and on for why each of us are right but it won't change the facts that many lives were lost.

Speaking of this post and the vaccine, I think it is rather interesting. I do not want to get it personally but I don't get all up in peoples faces about not getting it. I also do not demean people for getting it. I think a good question to ask would be how each of us are portraying Christ with our attitudes towards the vaccine. What if the government mandates it? I don't really see any reasoning for not getting it at that point. (This is me speaking) I don't see it as the government forcing me to sin. But on the other side, I think that those of us who have already got the vaccine or will if it is mandated... need to show grace to those who do not wish to get it. Another question that I think needs to be raised is this; how does the world perceive our decision? (And sometimes very vocal decision) Do our actions cause them to turn even further from Christ? I'm not judging anyone here... this is something I have been thinking about during COVID. I personally wore a mask where I went during the mandates and have family that are very anti-mask and against the vaccine and to me it's a tough topic.

 

This is the way I look at it. By the way, I am a retired engineer with 40 years of experience at NASA, Bell Labs, Bellcore, etc. (38 years with AT&T companies). The reason I say this is to explain my belief in science. It certainly doesn't change my faith except to deepen it as I look at the amazing universe (s) God has created. It does mean is in an emergency situation like this pandemic, I support following the best science available. These vaccines are not perfect but they are very, very good especially the MRNA varieties (Pfizer/Moderna). Science (the CDC, the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, John's Hopkins, etc.) is united in supporting taking the vaccine for almost all people. For a very few it
might have significant negative effects but we're talking about maybe 5 in a million people taking the J&J vaccine only. A total of over 310 million doses of a vaccine have been administered in the U.S.of which only about 10 million are J&J. Therefore the extreme reaction people have talked about MIGHT occur in about 50 people in the U.S. Compare that to the over 600,000 deaths and my conclusion is just about everyone should take a vaccine especially Pfizer or Moderna.

I don't want to get into a long analysis now but it's clear that countries that have been highly vaccinated are doing much better than those that have not. For example just look at India.
If you don't take the vaccine you're not only subjecting yourself but everyone you come into contact with to a greater danger of catching the virus. What's the downside of taking it? NONE.

My faith tells me that a Christian should take care of their own body as a gift from God. But also we have a responsibility to love and treat our neighbors with kindness. Who are our neighbors? Everyone we come into contact with. My conclusion is that the Christian thing to do is to help minimize the ongoing risks of Covid-19 in the U.S. by taking the vaccine. You claim that Christians should "show grace" towards people who choose to not take the vaccine. I've demonstrated that doing that will endanger themselves and their neighbors. I think we should gently admonish those who refuse to take it especdially other Christians. By doing so they are harming their neighbors which is directly against Christ's command to love our neighbors.

[Mat 25:40 KJV] 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.

 

Thank you for the reply brother!

It sounds like you have had a lot of great work experience in the past and some of that stuff sounds really cool to me! I enjoy science but have not done a ton of research into the different facets of it. I do agree with you that science can deepen one's faith. One of my favorite things to do is stargaze and even got to see Jupiter and Saturn this past December. It was a super cool sight and hopefully you were able to see it too. My wife and I bought a pretty cheap telescope and it took forever to get it lined up right but anyway... back on point. I completely agree with you that seeing the universe and the multitude of things that God has made is just amazing and definitely deepens my faith.

"For a very few it
might have significant negative effects but we're talking about maybe 5 in a million people taking the J&J vaccine only. A total of over 310 million doses of a vaccine have been administered in the U.S.of which only about 10 million are J&J. Therefore the extreme reaction people have talked about MIGHT occur in about 50 people in the U.S. Compare that to the over 600,000 deaths and my conclusion is just about everyone should take a vaccine especially Pfizer or Moderna."

I'm not good at the quoting yet... so I will just do it this way.
For me personally, I am not so worried about the complications of the vaccine when I get it but I do believe some of that fear can be founded. Those who are younger and that do not have per-existing conditions are statistically less likely to have severe cases of COVID-19. As someone who is not really at risk, I personally do not wish to take the vaccine. If it becomes mandatory, I will. But due to my lower risk I do not want to take the vaccine when there is a chance of reaction.

"Serious adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination are rare but may occur." (COVID-19 Vaccination)

They continue on with this information as well:
"Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, can occur after any vaccination. If this occurs, vaccination providers can effectively and immediately treat the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis."

"Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of June 14, 2021, more than 11.7 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 36 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS. Women younger than 50 years old especially should be aware of the rare but increased risk of this adverse event. There are other COVID-19 vaccine options available for which this risk has not been seen. Learn more about J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS."

"Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. As of June 14, 2021, VAERS has received 511 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 323 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports to assess whether there is a relationship to COVID-19 vaccination. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis."

While this one is still being studied and the numbers are low, I do not really want to take that risk.

To me, the bigger issue isn't the possible initial reactions that could be linked to the vaccine but the possible long term effects of it.

"While concerns about long-term effects of vaccines are legitimate, it is important to be aware that the organized anti-vaccine industry has targeted this issue as a way to sow doubt and confusion about COVID-19 vaccines." (Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia)

Now, I want to be clear, I am not at all anti-vaccination. I believe I am current on my vaccines and I got all of them as a kid, teen, and before I went off to college. But what I am saying, is that I am cautious with this vaccine. It is relatively new and I am cautious because of the long term effects.

"These vaccines are not perfect but they are very, very good especially the MRNA varieties (Pfizer/Moderna). Science (the CDC, the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, John's Hopkins, etc.) is united in supporting taking the vaccine for almost all people."

I personally find this thinking dangerous. While I get what you are trying to say, I think it can get to a very dangerous state. We can see throughout the past and even in the modern day how scientific theories are busted or found to be untrue. (10 Most Famous Scientific Theories That Were Later Debunked) (Modern Scientists Are Wrong Far More Than You Think)

The reason that I find that thinking dangerous is because when does one go against what the experts say? Experts say that the theory of evolution is true, that sex and gender are the not the same thing, and there is no God. I'm not saying you agree with these statements but I'm telling you why I find talking about experts as a dangerous thing.

So for me, my conclusion would be different than yours. I don't think we should force our brothers or sisters or admonish them to take it. I still think that if a brother or sister in Christ are hesitant on the vaccine... then I'm not going to force them. If it becomes mandatory, I will take it but while it is still a choice. I will not take it. I think a lot of this is in the messaging though. A lot of people are very vocal and push conspiracy theories or misinformation in not wanting to take it. What I have laid before you is from the CDC and a school. I also am not in peoples face about it. I'm sorry that we can't agree more on this topic.

I am glad that we agree that God has made an amazing universe full of things that are amazing that point us towards our Creator. I love you brother and I do not mean any of what I've said in this message divisively or demeaning to you or your perspective.

I hope the say is treating you well brother!

 

Oh boy. This could be a HIPPA issue.

 

This is what authoritarian countries like India do in a crisis. Notice we haven't done that but I think we should strongly encourage taking the vaccine. BTW, I've had some questions about whether I'm immunocompromised but that didn't prevent me from taking two doses of the Pzifer vac.

 

I read the first article you quoted,
Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know. | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

It argues FOR trusting the existing vaccines for Covid-19. "...while the rules of science do not allow scientists to say that long-term effects can never happen, the evidence is strong that these vaccines will not cause long-term harm."

"As stated by Dr. Maurice Hilleman, perhaps the most prolific vaccine scientist in history, “I never breathe a sigh of relief until the first few million doses are out there,” (Personal communication, Paul Offit, 2004). For this reason, scientists and public health officials carefully analyze and continually monitor the data related to every vaccine before, during and after it becomes available." Well, 320 million shots have been given in the U.S. alone and hundreds of millions in other countries. The evidence shows that these vaccines are safe especially the mRNA ones (Pfizer / Moderna). If you looking for an absolute sure thing the only one you'll find is Jesus. NOTHING made by man.

Your second article is problematic. First of all, all of science is based on theories. There's a reason they're called that. They haven't been proven satisfactorily. Proving them doesn't mean saying they are absolutely true in all cases (See my argument above). Cold fusion has been impossible to use so far because of the energy required to start the process (a nuclear explosion) and the inability to restrain and control it. Electromagnetic "bottles" have been used with some success but not enough to make it useful, YET.
That doesn't mean it wasn't an interesting and potentially useful thing to investigate.

The second example is even weaker. "The misconception that mass is destroyed in nuclear reactions" It insinuates Einstein was wrong because he claimed that "mass is destroyed in a nuclear reaction." He said nothing of the sort. Remember the famous equation ?

Einstein said that matter is CONVERTED into energy according to this equation not destroyed. I think you can see the lack of critical thinking in this article.

 

Thank you again for your reply.

I know what the above article was saying but it did say what I quoted as well. It's not wrong to be hesitant about the long term effects. That was all my point was and if they go on and say why they should be trusted, that's fine.

Your other comments about the sciences, sure. Theories are just that and it takes time to prove or make them workable. But there have been plenty of theories in the past they have been been disproven with an increase in knowledge.

We cannot claim that the vaccines will never have long term effects. You can't claim it won't happen, just like I can't claim it will. I'm just saying there is a possibility and for me, my wife, and my kids... I'm not risking that possibility.

You and I disagree and that's okay. I hope you are having a good week brother!

 

I can't claim that you won't be hit by lightning and killed today, either. After all, that happened to my great-uncle standing in the door of his barn.