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Three Kingdom's of God (Eschatology)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ed Edwards, Nov 8, 2008.

  1. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Thirteen Articles of Jewish faith

    http://www.kesser.org/moshiach/techiya-masim.html
    This was interesting so I copied it:

    The Thirteen Articles of Jewish faith are as follows:

    1. Belief in the existence of the Creator, be He Blessed, who is perfect in every manner of existence and is the Primary Cause of all that exists.
    2. The belief in G-d's absolute and unparalleled unity.
    3. The belief in G-d's noncorporeality, nor that He will be affected by any physical occurrences, such as movement, or rest, or dwelling.
    4. The belief in G-d's eternity.
    5. The imperative to worship Him exclusively and no foreign false gods.
    6. The belief that G-d communicates with man through prophecy.
    7. The belief that the prophecy of Moses our teacher has priority.
    8. The belief in the divine origin of the Torah.
    9. The belief in the immutability of the Torah.
    10. The belief in divine omniscience and providence.
    11. The belief in divine reward and retribution.
    12. The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era.
    13. The belief in the resurrection of the dead.

    I'll get back to that, someday.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    What are the meanings of 'and' in the English Language?

    More and more I'm finding that variants in Eschatology are discussions of the word 'and'. For if you vary the meaning of 'and' then you vary what the Bible says.

    Anybody want to look in their dictionary and tell me what 'and' means? How about Mathematical textbooks? How about the Logic branch of Mathematics?

    Here are some meanings of 'and' off the top of my head:


    1. 'and' connects two different names of two equal sets

    ('equal sets' means the two sets have the same exact contents)

    2. 'and' connects two equal sets
    3. 'and' connects two sets not equal (i.e. overlapping sets)
    4. 'and' connects a set and it's subset

    ('subset' means a second set all of whose members are part of the first set)

    That was fun, look at this verse:

    [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]2 Th 2:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Now wee beseech you, brethren, by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ, and by our gathering together vnto him,

    There are here two 'by' phrases that 'and' connects together. How does 'and' connect.

    Some will doubtless say "Ed, your idiot, there is only one way they can connect here, any other meaning just would not be 'literal'. Here is the meaning:
    [/FONT]2. 'and' connects two equal sets.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] Well, more than one makes sense (and some meanings of 'and' that I did not mention also make sense). It is wrong to make one's doctrine out of one and only one scripture, so we need to compare scripture to scripture, concept to concept, idea to idea, truth to truth - from the scripture.

    Each meaning we assign to 'and' gives different results.

    [/FONT]2. 'and' connects two equal sets.
    the events of the COMING OF MESSIAH JESUS are exactly equal to the events of the GATHERING OF THE SAINTS by MESSIAH JESUS.

    In this case 1 and 2 are about the same. The two names are different, but they describe the same set of events.

    Another place where the COMING OF MESSIAH JESUS and the GATHERING OF THE SAINTS by MESSIAH JESUS are mentioned together in Scripture is in Matthew 24:30-31

    Mat 24:30-31 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And then shall appeare the signe of the Sonne of man in heauen: and then shall all the Tribes of the earth mourne, and they shall see the Sonne of man coming in the clouds of heauen, with power and great glory.
    31 And hee shall send his Angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his Elect from the foure windes, from one end of heauen to the other.

    If you assign that these two sets of events are equal, you run into trouble right here. Matthew 24:30 says that at the Coming of Messiah Jesus "all the Tribes of the earth mourne" I know I'm looking forward to what happens when Jesus comes to get me at THE GATHERING of the Elect, athe THE GATHERING of the SAINTS. Well I know the Bible cannot contradict itself - what is the problem? The problems is I falsely assumed that

    {COMING OF MESSIAH JESUS events} = {GATHERING OF THE SAINTS by MESSIAH JESUS events}

    the symbol (}) is a type of parens used to denote sets usually in this format:

    {Name| element1, element2, element3 ... element207, element208}
    where the elepsis (...) means 'and so forth', which saves lots of space

    So now I look into what other meanings of 'and' there might be that does NOT lead to contradictions.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Topic Dedication to the Dead in Christ

    1Th 4:17 (quoted without reference on BB):
    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    This topic is hereby dedicated to the
    6,300 Million Christians who have NOT
    survived life and who are NOT alive
    and do NOT perileipo (remain).

    Maranatha = Even so, Lord Jesus, come quickly!

    (NOTE: caught up in English means the same as 'raptured' in Latin)
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Day

    The Jews reckoned the day from sunset to sunset (Lev. 23:32). It was originally divided into three parts (Ps. 55:17). "The heat of the day" (1 Sam. 11:11; Neh. 7:3) was at our nine o'clock, and "the cool of the day" just before sunset (Gen. 3:8). Before the Captivity the Jews divided the night into three watches, (1) from sunset to midnight (Lam. 2:19); (2) from midnight till the cock-crowing (Judg. 7:19); and (3) from the cock-crowing till sunrise (Ex. 14:24). In the New Testament the division of the Greeks and Romans into four watches was adopted (Mark 13:35). (See WATCHES.) The division of the day by hours is first mentioned in Dan. 3:6, 15; 4:19; 5:5. This mode of reckoning was borrowed from the Chaldeans. The reckoning of twelve hours was from sunrise to sunset, and accordingly the hours were of variable length (John 11:9). The word "day" sometimes signifies an indefinite time (Gen. 2:4; Isa. 22:5; Heb. 3:8, etc.). In Job 3:1 it denotes a birthday, and in Isa. 2:12, Acts 17:31, and 2 Tim. 1:18, the great day of final judgment.


    Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary

    "day." Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary. 05 Jan. 2009. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/day>.


     
    #84 Ed Edwards, Jan 5, 2009
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  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/day

    DAY


    –noun
    1. the interval of light between two successive nights; the time between sunrise and sunset: Since there was no artificial illumination, all activities had to be carried on during the day.
    2. the light of day; daylight: The owl sleeps by day and feeds by night.
    3. Astronomy.
    a. Also called mean solar day. a division of time equal to 24 hours and representing the average length of the period during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis.
    b. Also called solar day. a division of time equal to the time elapsed between two consecutive returns of the same terrestrial meridian to the sun.
    c. Also called civil day. a division of time equal to 24 hours but reckoned from one midnight to the next. Compare lunar day, sidereal day.
    4. an analogous division of time for a planet other than the earth: the Martian day.
    5. the portion of a day allotted to work: an eight-hour day.
    6. a day on which something occurs: the day we met.
    7. (often initial capital letter) a day assigned to a particular purpose or observance: New Year's Day.
    8. a time considered as propitious or opportune: His day will come.
    9. a day of contest or the contest itself: to win the day.
    10. Often, days. a particular time or period: the present day; in days of old.
    11. (Usually, days.) period of life or activity: His days are numbered.
    12. period of existence, power, or influence: in the day of the dinosaurs.
    13. light 1 (def. 19a). —Idioms
    14. call it a day, to stop one's activity for the day or for the present; quit temporarily: After rewriting the paper, she decided to call it a day.
    15. day in, day out, every day without fail; regularly: They endured the noise and dirt of the city day in, day out. Also, day in and day out.

    Origin:
    bef. 950; ME; OE dæg; c. G Tag[​IMG]



    Obviously missing:

    the 24-hour day is the time between two successive visits to a place in the sky TAKEN AT ONE PLACE ON THE EARTH

    There is a 48-hour day, not mentioned yet in the Dictionaries: the time between two successive visits to a place in the sky TAKEN AT ALL PLACES ON THE EARTH.

    The most likely meaning found in the Scripture Prophecies is:


    DAY
    a time considered as propitious or opportune


    [joke]

    God, to you 1,000 years is like a day
    YES
    God, to you even a million years is like a minute
    YES
    God, to you $1,000 is like $1
    YES
    God, to you even a million dollars is like a penny
    YES
    God, would you give me just one of our pennies?
    YES, In A MINUTE!

    [/joke]
     
    #85 Ed Edwards, Jan 5, 2009
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  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Mysteries 1 to 6

    The New Testament Mysteries point to
    the veracity of the pretrib rapture2 position.
    (for the definition of 'Mystery' here
    see Mystery #5 and the scripture at Eph 3:5)

    1. Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven

    Matthew 12:10-11 (nKJV):
    10. And the disciples came and said to Him,
    "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
    11. He answered and said to them, "Because it
    has been given to you to know THE MYSTERIES
    OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, but to them it has
    not been given.

    The parables of the Kingdom of Heaven are
    given in Matthew 13:3-50 and in Mark 4:26-29

    I believe the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven
    describe the Church Age. The Church Age
    goes from Pentacost to Rapture/resurrection/transformation.
    During that age the Holy Spirit moves among
    humans convicting of sin, and calling humans
    to salvation through Jesus, the Christ.
    This period in HIS-story can also be called
    "the age of the gentiles".

    2. Mystery of Israel's blindness in the Church Age

    Romans 11:25-26a (nKJV):
    For I do not desire, brethren, that you
    should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you
    should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness
    in part has happened to Israel until the
    fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
    26. And so all Israel will be saved,

    I've had several interesting discussions
    with Messianic Jews. They are thrilled at the
    prospects that when the last possible gentile
    (Hebrew: "goy") comes to accept Jesus, the Messiah,
    as their personal savior -- then will Jesus
    resurrect/rapture/transform the saved to that time.
    Then will come the Tribulation, with the purpose
    of Jesus finally winning the Jews unto Himself.


    3. Mystery of the Rapture

    1 Chrinthians 15:51a (NIV):
    Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep,
    but we will all be changed -- ...

    1 Thessalonians 4:14,16

    Titus 2:13 (nKJV):
    looking for the blessed hope and
    glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jeus
    Christ

    Of course, such a rapture must be pretrib
    when 100s of millions of saints are still alive,
    for after the tribulation there will only be a few
    handfuls of living saints.


    4. Mystery of His Will

    Ephesians 1:9-12 (NIV)
    And he made known to us the mystery of his will according
    to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ,
    10 to be put into effect when the times will have
    reached their fulfillment -- to bring all things
    in heaven and on earth together under one head,
    even Christ.
    11 In him we were also chosen, having
    been predestined according to the plan of him who
    works out everything in conformity with
    the purpose of his will,
    12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in
    Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

    May God's will be done!

    From Eternity past God has intended
    to bring all things together in Christ.

    This joining inclues the gentile church and
    the race of Yisrael. At the pretribulation
    rapture Jesus takes the gentile church out
    of the world, and then uses the Tribulation
    to bring Yisrael back to Him.


    5. Mystery of Christ:
    the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel

    Ephesians 3:2-12 (NIV):

    2 Surely you have heard about the administration
    of God's grace that was given to me for you,
    3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation,
    as I have already written briefly.
    4 In reading this, then, you will be able
    to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
    5 which was not made known to men in other generations
    as it has now been revealed by the Spirit
    to God's holy apostles and prophets.
    6 This mystery is that through the gospel
    the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel,
    members together of one body, and sharers
    together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
    7 I became a servant of this gospel by the
    gift of God's grace given me through the working
    of his power.
    8 Although I am less than the least of all God's
    people, this grace was given me: to preach to
    the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
    9 and to make plain to everyone the administration
    of this mystery, which for ages past was
    kept hidden in God, who created all things.
    10 His intent was that now, through the church,
    the manifold wisdom of God should be made
    known to the rulers and authorities in
    the heavenly realms,
    11 according to his eternal purpose
    which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    12 In him and through faith in him
    we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

    This is interesting because both verse 5 and 9
    define "mystery". A mystery is what God knew
    and is being revealed, but was not known to men
    before.

    The gentile church and the race of Yisrael
    are joint heirs of God's promise to Abraham.
    At the pretribulation rapture Jesus takes the gentile church
    out of the world, and then He uses the Tribulation Period
    to bring Yisrael back to Him.

    BTW, Ephesians 3:2 the word "administration"
    in the NIV is rendered "dispensation"
    in the KJV1769.


    6. Mystery of Church the Bride of Christ

    Ephesians 4:30b-33 (NIV):

    for we are members of his body.
    31 "For this reason a man will leave his father
    and mother and be united to his wife,
    and the two will become one flesh."
    32 This is a profound mystery--but I
    am talking about Christ and the church.
    33 However, each one of you also must
    love his wife as he loves himself,
    and the wife must respect her husband

    Revelation 19: (NIV):

    Let us rejoice and be glad
    and give him glory!
    For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
    and his bride has made herself ready.
    8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
    was given her to wear."
    (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)

    Does Jesus take his Bride out of the world
    before the "wedding of the Lamb" (pretrib)
    or after the "wedding of the Lamb" (postrib)?

    7 to 13 on the post following ...
     
    #86 Ed Edwards, Jan 7, 2009
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  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Mysteries 7 to 13

    7. Mystery of the Indwelling Christ in Believers

    John 15:4 (NIV)
    Remain in me, and I will remain in you.
    No branch can bear fruit by itself;
    it must remain in the vine.
    Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    Galations 2:20 (NIV)
    I have been crucified with Christ and I no
    longer live, but Christ lives in me.
    The life I live in the body, I live
    by faith in the Son of God, who loved me
    and gave himself for me.

    Philippians 1:21 (NIV)
    For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

    Colossians 1:25-26 (NIV)
    the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages
    and generations, but is now disclosed
    to the saints.
    27 To them God has chosen to make known
    among the Gentiles the glorious
    riches of this mystery, which is
    Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    Woah! Christianity has the other mystery religions
    beatten hands down! Christ who is God dwells
    within each saint!

    What glory is there in the Pretribulation Rapture?
    ALL GLORY!

    What glory is there in dragging into the Tribulation?


    8. Mystery of God, Even Christ

    Colossians 2:2b (nKJV):
    attaining to all riches
    of the full assurance of understanding, to the
    knowledge of the mystery of God, both of
    the Father and of Christ,

    1 Chrinthians 2:7 (nKJV):
    But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
    the hidden wisdom which God ordained
    before the ages for our glory.

    Interesting, "before the ages". Well, then if
    this wisdom of God was before the ages, it is
    certainly before the Church Age.
    And the infinite knowledge of God is incarnate
    in Christ. And the infinite wisdome of God
    which was incarnate in Christ is "for our glory".

    How is it for our glory, we the saints of the Living
    God, if have to go through the Tribulation period
    as some nay-sayers promote?


    9. Mystery of Inquity/Lawlessness

    This mystery deals with Satan's ongoing
    master plan to bring forth the Antichrist
    in the End Times, yet the outcome is clear.
    Will Jesus let His Church be around when
    the Antichrist is punished on the earth?

    2 Thessalonians 2:7-8a (nKJV):
    For the mystery of lawlessness is already at
    work; only He who now restrains will do so
    until He is taken out of the way.
    And then the lawless one will be revealed, ... "

    Interesting, this mystery is explained in the
    pretribulation rapture book of the Bible:
    2 Thessalonians. We repeat the timeline shown
    in 2 Thessalonians that is clearly specified there:

    1. The Church Age (with it's tribulation)
    2. Day of Christ:
    -2a. falling away; our gathering together to Him;
    --removal of the restrainer
    -2b. the revelation of the man of sin
    -2c. the period of deception; the Tribulation
    -2d. the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    -2e. the destruction of the man of sin

    2 Thessalonians 3:2 (nKJV):
    But the Lord is faithful, who will establish
    you and guard you from the evil one.

    And this is all summed up in one word:

    '\o/' Maranatha! '\o/'

    10. Mystery of Godliness

    1 Timothy 3:16 (nKJV):
    And without controversy great
    is the mystery of Godliness:

    God was manifested in the flesh,
    Justified in the Spirit,
    Seen by angels,
    Preached among the Gentiles,
    Believed on in the world,
    Received up in glory.

    And that is just what God had done up
    to the time of the writing.
    Later He will:

    Rapture the Church, the Bride of Christ
    Marry the Church in Heaven (Tribulation on earth)
    Return to earth at the Second Advent
    Destroy the Antichrist and bind Satan
    Rule the earth on the Throne of David.

    11. Mystery of the Seven Stars/Candlesticks

    Revelation 1:20 (nKJV):
    The mystery of the seven stars which you
    saw in My right hand, and the seven golden
    lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of
    the seven churches, and the seven lampstands
    which you saw are the seven churches.

    Oh yes, Sweet Jesus! The 7-stars,
    the 7-golden lampstands -- the Church age
    in double completeness.
    And when the church on earth is complete,
    the Christ, Jesus, will rapture the church.
    And the wedding supper of the Lamb will
    take place in heaven as the Tribulation
    takes place on earth.


    12. Mystery, Babylon the Great:

    This mystery forcasts the final
    world apostate church of
    the Tribulation after the Rapture.

    Revelation 17:5 (nKJV), emphasis from the source:

    And on her forehead a name was written:
    MYSTERY,
    BABYLON THE GREAT,
    THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE
    ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


    13. Mystery of God

    This mystery announces the conclusion of God's
    program to consummate history during the
    the last days of the voice of the seventh angel".

    All the mystery prophecies concerning the
    Kingdom of Christ will be fulfilled,
    relevant to Israel
    and the world leading to the reign of the Messiah.

    Revelation 10:7 (nKJV):
    but in the days of the sounding of the seventh
    angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery
    of God would be finished, as He declared
    to His servants the prophets.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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  9. InChrist

    InChrist New Member

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    Ezekiel 43, 44 & 45

    I've been reading through this thread and trying to understand what is being said.

    I understand some to believe that there will be no literal Millenial Kingdom to come (being a-mill?). If this is the case then can someone please explain to me Ezek 43, 44 and 45? I thought that these chapters spoke of a literal kingdom, where the Lord will rule and reign over the house of Israel and where His name will be defiled NO MORE. There has never been a time in Israel where the Lord has ruled on the throne of David (in the flesh... it mentions the soles of his feet where He will dwell in the midst of them in 43:7), and Israel certainly still defiles the name of the Lord even to this day, so this event surely must still be future?
     
  10. InChrist

    InChrist New Member

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    Are OT Saints "in Christ" ?

    Another question that I have. Were the Old Testament saints "in Christ" in the same manner that we are in this age?

    1 Cor 12:13 says "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

    So then it is by the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is unique to the believer AFTER the resurrection of Christ that places one IN Christ.

    I thought perhaps this might have something to do with the difference between the literal Jewish earthly kingdom, which I believe was promised to David, and the OT Saints, and then the spiritual Kingdom which NT Church age saints (where there is neither Jew nor Gentile via baptism of the Spirit) which is promised to us as heavenly citizens?
     
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