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Through (dia) Faith (pisteos)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This important phrase appears about 15 times in the New Testament and conveys the idea an action is accessible or accomplished by means of faith or faithfulness. If the prepositional phrase is a subjective genitive, then the idea is by means of Christ's faithfulness, i.e. the shedding of His blood. But if the idea is something is accessible or accomplished by means of our credited faith in Christ, the prepositional phrase is an objective genitive, i.e. Christ is the object of our credited faith.

    Here are the interpreted verses:

    Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God by means of Jesus Christ's faithfulness for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

    Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiatory shelter accessible by means of credited faith in His blood. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

    Romans 3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised on the basis of credited faith and the uncircumcised by means of credited faith is one.

    Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law by means of credited faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

    Galatians 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the Law's works but by means of Jesus Christ's faithfulness even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by means of Christ's faithfulness and not by the Law's works; since by the Law's works no flesh will be justified.

    Galatians 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit by means of our credited faith.

    Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God by means of your credited faith in Christ Jesus.

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;

    Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and confident access by means of His faithfulness.

    Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts by means of your credited faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

    Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by means of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.

    Colossians 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him by means of your credited faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

    2Timothy 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation by means of your credited faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    Hebrews 6:12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who by means of credited faith and patience inherit the promises.

    1Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God by means of our credited faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Christ = Propitiation = Means of Salvation

    Before we even think about studying hilasterion and the related words hilaskomai and hilasmos, we must address the three cornerstone words of salvation - propitiation, the means of salvation, redemption, the act of salvation, and reconciliation, the result of salvation. Our word study below enters into the arena of the means of salvation, which is Jesus Christ.

    Hilasterion

    Our best historical understanding is that hilasterion referred to the lid of the ark of the covenant, which was sprinkled with blood, and thus referred to as the mercy seat. Articles on its meaning are filled with classic words like expiation, atonement, and propitiation, all of which convey almost nothing to the modern reader. In a nutshell, under the Old Covenant, the blood of animals was sprinkled on the hilasterion on the day of atonement to provide temporary reconciliation with God and avoidance of the wages of sin. Under the New Covenant, Jesus, covered with His precious blood, has become our "hilasterion" (and our blood sin offering) as the means of everlasting reconciliation with God and avoidance of the wages of sin.

    Three related Greek words (Hilasterion and Hilasmos-nouns and Hilaskomai -verb) appear 6 times in the New Testament, Romans 3:25, Hebrews 9:5 ; 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10, Luke 18:13, and Hebrews 2:17. If we look at several translations we find the words translated as (1) propitiatory sacrifice; (2) propitiation; (3) mercy seat; (4) atonement and (5) atoning sacrifice for the nouns; with the verb being translated as (1) have mercy; (2) be merciful; (3) turn your wrath; and (4) make propitiation.

    In short the verb refers to the act of having mercy and the noun to the means of having mercy. Therefore hilasterion should be understood as the means of obtaining mercy , i.e the propitiatory shelter. When Christ died on the cross, covered with His own blood, He became the propitiation - the means of salvation - for the whole of humanity, and access to that grace is granted by God crediting our faith in Christ as righteousness. Knowing this even we have believed into Christ. See Romans 3:23-25 and Romans 5:2, and Romans 4:4-5 and 1 John 2:2.
     
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Wrong once again, no matter how often you post it.
    Still wrong.Taint so.
    Your post is credited as error.
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again we see Calvinists at war with truth.

    Does he say "dia" is not used to show causality, i.e. by means of? Nope
    Does he say "pisteos" is not used in both subjective and objective genitives? Nope
    Does he say Christ is not the means of salvation? Nope
    Does he say God does not credit the faith of those of His choosing as righteousness? Nope

    The Calvinist probably meant something, but they are so shy...
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Faith is the conduit by which the gift of salvation is delivered but is not the gift itself Ephesians 2:8-9
     
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  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." ( Galatians 2:16 ).

    " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." ( Galatians 2:20 ).

    " But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."
    ( Galatians 3:23 ).

    " But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
    Galatians 5:22-23 ).

    " Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." ( Hebrews 12:2 ).

    " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." ( Hebrews 11:1 ).



    Please look at the Scriptures again, dear readers

    Notice what the words actually say, and where our faith as believers actually comes from.

    Jesus Christ.:)
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Sigh the word faith can have different meanings based on context like any word. It can mean to believe or it can be a reference to that which is believed in.

    Not sure why that needs explaining.
     
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  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    The word "faith" in the Bible means "trust" and / or "belief".

    For example, " trust and / or belief " comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    Again I agree.
    For example, "the faith" ( Jude 1:3 ), which is the body of Scriptural truth.
    Nothing needs explaining.
    I understand the differences quite well, thanks.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    ok maybe you do but the post prior did not demonstrate that instead it gave the sense you are conflating the two.

    however, our faith is either the ability to believe( which you folks falsely claim is a gift) and it can also be that which we believe in which is the gospel.
     
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  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    A thought that came to mind.

    Does he say "pisteos" is not used in both subjective and objective genitives?

    Is that a fact because of the following statement?

    Hebrews 12:2 ἀφορῶντες εἰς τὸν τῆς πίστεως ἀρχηγὸν καὶ τελειωτὴν Ἰησοῦν

    the, of the faith - subjective and objective

    BTW I know, no Greek.

    I just have thoughts.
     
  11. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    We must speak as the oracles of God. Biblical expressions have their own connotations which cannot be coopted by modern theology because they sound correlative to a certain system.
    The expressions like faith of Jesus Christ mean the faith that is in relation to Jesus as opposed to Zeus, for example, or to O.T. generic faith; they don't mean saving faith that is given us of Jesus Christ.
    Proof:
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am once again bewildered, as to what your question is.

    Hebrews 12:2 has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the Greek word "pisteos" being used in scripture in more than one type of genitive phrase.

    I think the OP is clear, sometimes Jesus is the subject whose faith accomplishes the action, and sometimes Jesus is the object of our faith toward Him.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Please do not post off topic copy and paste smokescreed to change the subject.
    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved by means of your credited faith; and that salvation is not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God;
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What verses display "pisteos" being used in a subjective genitive phrase?

    Romans 3:3 What then? If some did not believe, does their unbelief nullify God's faithfulness?

    Romans 3:22 namely, the righteousness of God through Jesus Christ's faithfulness for all who believe. For there is no distinction,

    Romans 3:26 This was also to demonstrate his righteousness in the present time, so that he would be just and the justifier of the one who lives because of Jesus' faithfulness.

    Galatians 2:16 yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by Jesus Christ's faithfulness. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by Christ's faithfulness and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

    Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the Son of God's faithfulness, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    Galatians 3:22 But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given - because of Jesus Christ's faithfulness - to those who believe.

    Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and confident access to God because of Christ's faithfulness.

    Philippians 3:9 and be found in him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by way of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Some of the older translations render many of the above verses as "faith of God (Christ, etc). But if we consider that meaning, God would only trust in members of the Trinity, thus the idea seems to me to be always God's faithfulness to His word or the promises of other members of the Trinity. So "faithfulness of God" seems better than "faith of God." And of course, God's faithfulness removes any ambiguity.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How do we attain righteousness?

    Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not because I have my own righteousness derived from the law, but because I have the righteousness that comes by means of Christ's faithfulness - a righteousness from God that is in fact based on Christ's faithfulness.
     
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