Are you a Hebrew? God is not dealing with individuals in the book of Hebrews, he is dealing with a people, who are under a probationary period during a time after they had refused to enter into their rest on the merits of their own Messiah. Read He 3. Their was a figure of this very time in the OT history. The probation ended in 70 AD with the loss of the national identity because of the dispersion.
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Timing of the Rapture
- Thread starter StefanM
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Are you a Hebrew? God is not dealing with individuals in the book of Hebrews, he is dealing with a people, who are under a probationary period during a time after they had refused to enter into their rest on the merits of their own Messiah. Read He 3. Their was a figure of this very time in the OT history. The probation ended in 70 AD with the loss of the national identity because of the dispersion.
Wow! You have a bizarre view of Hebrews. The message of Hebrews is to Christians who were being tempted to go back to a dead covenant that was finished at the cross. The point is that Jesus is greater than anything they would ever consider going toward, so they should keep the faith.
Here is Hebrews 3:
And so, dear brothers and sisters who belong to God and are partners with those called to heaven, think carefully about this Jesus whom we declare to be God’s messenger and High Priest. For he was faithful to God, who appointed him, just as Moses served faithfully when he was entrusted with God’s entire house. But Jesus deserves far more glory than Moses, just as a person who builds a house deserves more praise than the house itself. For every house has a builder, but the one who built everything is God. Moses was certainly faithful in God’s house as a servant. His work was an illustration of the truths God would reveal later. But Christ, as the Son, is in charge of God’s entire house. And we are God’s house, if we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ. That is why the Holy Spirit says, “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts as Israel did when they rebelled, when they tested me in the wilderness. There your ancestors tested and tried my patience, even though they saw my miracles for forty years. So I was angry with them, and I said, ‘Their hearts always turn away from me. They refuse to do what I tell them.’ So in my anger I took an oath: ‘They will never enter my place of rest.’” Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. You must warn each other every day, while it is still “today,” so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God. For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ. Remember what it says: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts as Israel did when they rebelled.” And who was it who rebelled against God, even though they heard his voice? Wasn’t it the people Moses led out of Egypt? And who made God angry for forty years? Wasn’t it the people who sinned, whose corpses lay in the wilderness? And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter his rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest.
To understand Daniel, you have to understand the first vision.
(Daniel 2:44-45)
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever. That is the meaning of the rock cut from the mountain, though not by human hands, that crushed to pieces the statue of iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God was showing the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its meaning is certain.”
37818
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Revelation 17:9-14, ". . . And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. . . ."
Great verses. What's your point?
37818
Well-Known Member
What's your point?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@canadyjd that is the problem it is not clear and that is why we have these various views which scholars have put forward.
37818
Well-Known Member
70 A.D. is a fulfillment of Daniel 9:26, ". . . Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; . . ." Being an evidence Jesus is the Christ.
I have no disagreement with your statement. It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, however
(Daniel 9:26)
“After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.
I agree with the above. Therefore who is raised out of the dead and or made alive when he returns as King?
BTW That is when I believe Jesus sits on the throne of David, The tabernacle of David is the Christ Jesus sitting on the throne of David his father.
According to 1 Cor 15 23 Answer those who are Christ’s at His coming.
He will rule with those who are his.
That leaves the question about the rest of the dead and the ones on earth still alive who were not his.
IMHO they will neither be raised out of the dead or made alive until it is time to deliver the kingdom up to God even the Father.
That is what I believe and was expressed in all my posts, by scripture.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Well if it were as clear as you seem to think then you would not have all this disagreement would you? Personally I do not get that involved in these endless arguments. If we, Christians, are to go through the tribulations then God will protect us if we go home prior to the tribulations then that is great. But either way it will have no impact on our salvation will it? Or do you think that what a person thinks regarding the end times does impact their salvation?
Your comment reminds me of Hezekiah when he heard that Judah would be wiped out by Babylon, but he wouldn't experience it in his lifetime.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As a Christian why should I be troubled by what is future. All Christians are secure in the arms of the Lord either through the tribulation or through the rapture. But as a Christian my heart desire is that all would come to trust in Christ Jesus so that no one should have to suffer the troubles that are foretold.
So there is a difference between myself and Hezekiah. One sought only his own safety where the other seeks the safety of all.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As Jesus answers this important second question, He will make many specific comments and predictions about the end times. These predictions have been the source of tremendous disagreement among Christians who have tried to understand them. Why didn’t Jesus simply say it so clearly that there was no possibility anyone could misunderstand Him?
a. One reason why prophecy may seem “vague” is because God wants every age to have reasons to be ready for Jesus return. We should not think of Jesus’ return as an event far off on a time line, but something we have been running parallel with since the day of Pentecost.
b. Others have suggested that God’s intention was to keep the future somewhat vague and clouded to confound the Devil, even as the resurrection of the Messiah was vague in the Old Testament.
c. Though some prophetic interpretations are different, we are sure of this: He is coming again, and we must be ready.
David Guzik's Enduring Word Commentary
a. One reason why prophecy may seem “vague” is because God wants every age to have reasons to be ready for Jesus return. We should not think of Jesus’ return as an event far off on a time line, but something we have been running parallel with since the day of Pentecost.
b. Others have suggested that God’s intention was to keep the future somewhat vague and clouded to confound the Devil, even as the resurrection of the Messiah was vague in the Old Testament.
c. Though some prophetic interpretations are different, we are sure of this: He is coming again, and we must be ready.
David Guzik's Enduring Word Commentary
(Matthew 25:1-13)
“Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. The five who were foolish didn’t take enough olive oil for their lamps, but the other five were wise enough to take along extra oil. When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’ “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’ “But the others replied, ‘We don’t have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’ “But he called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’ “So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return.
Be ready.
“Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. The five who were foolish didn’t take enough olive oil for their lamps, but the other five were wise enough to take along extra oil. When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. “At midnight they were roused by the shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is coming! Come out and meet him!’ “All the bridesmaids got up and prepared their lamps. Then the five foolish ones asked the others, ‘Please give us some of your oil because our lamps are going out.’ “But the others replied, ‘We don’t have enough for all of us. Go to a shop and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were gone to buy oil, the bridegroom came. Then those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was locked. Later, when the other five bridesmaids returned, they stood outside, calling, ‘Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!’ “But he called back, ‘Believe me, I don’t know you!’ “So you, too, must keep watch! For you do not know the day or hour of my return.
Be ready.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Always ready.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
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