Tithe vs offering

Darren,

You said, "Its a guilt driven practice and I did it for almost 7 years."

Do you still attend the same church?

 

I was taught to tithe as a new convert (as most everyone who ever tithed did) and yes I left that first church (Pentacostal) after 5 years. However the Baptists churches that I have attended all teach tithing, some enforce it some don't. My present church tithing and faith promises pledges are enforced and strongly preached when it is preached (non tithers are called thieves and robbers from the pulpit), as vital practices for each and every christian. Our current pastor preached that a christian ought to pay their tithes first before they even pay their house and grocery expenses.

Darren

 

Darren,

Been there. Experienced that.

God have mercy

 

Exactly. As christians the bible is our authority, when I hear sermons specifically on tithing and there is no clear line connecting the dots to make tithing valid for churches and christians I have to side with scripture. I have never heard a clear and direct tithing sermon, they have all been mixed messages that jump all over the place. I don't know if anyone else has noticed that but I have. I am wondering if anyone has EVER heard a clear presentation on tithing (taking no scriptures out of context or using unrelated passages) for christians and the church taught from scripture?

Darren

 

I have a friend from Vietnam. She is 3rd generation Christian, which is unusual for someone from that country. Yesterday we were talking and she told me that whenever she works overtime she gives 50% of the overtime money earned to the Lord. She said, "How can I do less. The Lord gave me life." She does not have a lot of money, never has, never will. But she loves her Lord, expects and gets miracles from him and witnesses for Jesus continually.

There are some responses here that make it sound as if giving a title or more is a sin. Seems a very strange attitude to me.

Have a blessed day.

 

...wow......has it gotten that bad? ....probably I've just been away from it so long that I forgot how some churches are. Thanks for sharing.

Larry

 

No you are misreading. The issue is how should money be given, as a "freewill" offering where there is no obligation to give, which can be given with love, a cheerful heart and sacrificially. OR should money be given on the basis it is according to the OT law of tithing as was passed onto the Jews as their individual responsibility and obligation; this amount is mandatory and carries with it a punishment for not fulfilling ones obligation. Under the tithe system it was not relevant to be cheerful, loving, generous or whatever, it was the law that the tithe would be given and viewed primarily as a debt that must be payed and it was not an offering.

Darren

 

From what I can see any church that teaches and collects tithes use Malachi 3 as their tithing enforcer. What some reason out is your tithe is between you and God, however if you don't want to be in God's bad books you are better off to tithe. I have yet to hear of a church that does not teach or collect tithes so far. Be glad to know otherwise.

Darren

 

Jesus spoke about tithing in Matthew 23:23, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

 

Crabtownboy...

Oh, there is nothing in the world wrong with her doing that, if she has decided she wants to do that. Thats wonderful. Nobody is against generous giving, as long as it is something that the individual has purposed in their heart to give.

It is only when people are coerced into giving by being taught tithing...with the obligatory threats, guilt trips and fear tactics...that it becomes a problem.

Free will giving is the only giving method for the christian.

Tithing was for the Israelites under the old covenant...and someone else here on BB has made a good case in the past that it never had anything to do with money, but rather it had to do with crops.

 

It was the way you describe in the sect of Baptists that I was raised up in. There was always pressure exerted from the pulpit to give, and that always with the reminder that the giving was to be over and beyond the tithe.

In nearly 30 years with the Old Baptists I have yet to hear the first public solicitation for money from the pulpit. Funding of operations is a discreet matter. Some churches may have a box mounted on the wall for contributions to be placed in, or the pastor or deacons are given cash or checks directly, or members may arrange for direct deposit into the churches account. It is a discreet matter that is left totally up to the individual.

Larry.

 

Yes, and Jesus was speaking to those under under the law (who were bragging about all the great things they did) and not to the Church. He simply told the disciples to give without letting one hand know what the other hand was doing.

 

Do we need to tithe mint, dill, and cummin? After, Jesus said not to leave that undone.

There is absolutely NOWHERE in Scripture (Old or New Testaments) where anyone was ever commanded to tithe of monetary income (neither of money nor of income in any form). And no, this was not because Israel was an "agrarian society." It was because God wanted Israel to tithe only of things (food) that grew or depended upon the climate in the Promised Land (Deu 12:1-11). This was so that the people would depend utterly upon God to provide the food of which they would tithe.

Only landowners tithed. Levites tithed of their tithes to the priests. Some people who had other trades did not tithe. Tithes were only of food and only that grown and raised in the boundaries of the Promised Land.

Also, only every third year in a seven-year cycle would people wholly give away their tithes. The other years, tithes were brought to Jerusalem for an annual feast where the people would eat their own tithes and share them with the Levites.

There is simply no valid comparison that would require someone to tithe of his earned monetary income. Monetary giving to support the church has nothing whatsoever to do with tithing found anywhere in the Bible. These two are completely different subjects. One does not succeed the other. They are just not at all related.

 

Yes, and they tithed mint, dill, and cummin. Jesus told them that they ought to leave that undone. Are we supposed to do that too? If Jesus told them this, and what He said applies to us, we had better tithe mint, dill, and cummin.

Why is it that so many skip over this very important phrase? These are the words of Jesus!

 

I know that many Pastors would have cows if the people started bringing in livestock and produce instead of cash and checks. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Not only would they have cows but they would have pigs, chickens, goats, horses, wheat, corn, soy, beans, etc., etc.. :laugh:

 

I wonder if anyone goes to a church that teaches tithing, how do you feel hearing it preached when you know the bible teaches free will offerings for the NT church/christian; and even further tithing enforced through Mal 3? For me, I just grin and bear it. In my former Pentacostal church (not my currect Baptist church) people would be removed from ministry if they were found to not tithe. They actually taught as well that you could lose your salvation by not tithing, they taught a works based doctrine based on obedience to God.

Darren

 

My view for what it's worth is that the tithe is a good standard (it was used by Abraham long before the Law was given, so it pre-dates the Law), but our giving should be generous.

I've always wondered how a Pharisee who was saved would have given when he went to church next Sunday. Would he have said, "Wow! I'm under grace, so I can give less"; or would he from a truly grateful heart, say, "I would not want to give God any less out of love, than I used to do out of duty.".

Two things I have found over the years. (well, one thing expressed two different ways)
1. You cannot outgive God.
2. God is no man's debtor.

 

Abraham gave of the spoils 10% and no further mention of it at all. Do you really think this qualifies as "tithing" preceding the law? I certainly don't. The issue was that tithing was a legal obligation as given by the law, did the church continue this practice or replace it with freewill giving? An argument for tithing that compares tithing to freewill giving is completely missing the point in my humble opinion... :saint:

Darren

 

Most people seem to get tithes & offerings confused with one another. A tithe is the 10% that is God's. That is what you are supposed to give. An offering is the extra you give beyond the 10%.