Featured To Obey God rather than tradition is legalism? Really??

There is nothing moral about keeping the fourth commandment or the Jewish Sabbath.
Tell me the morality behind it. It is not part of the moral law.
For example, if I don't steal, don't commit adultery, etc., I will be a better person for it. That is true in any society.
But if I fail to keep the Jewish sabbath, how is that going to make me a better person? What is moral about keeping the Sabbath? It is not part of the moral law.

The other references you give in Isaiah. I will discuss those with you when you tell me why you and EGW believe that all of us Baptists and Protestants have the Mark of the Beast because we worship on Sunday and not Saturday.

 

First, EGW does not live "today."
Second, she is referring to a prophecy.
Third, you are referring to a prophecy.
Fourth, both prophecies refer to a future event.
Fifth, hypocritically you want to apply a truth from one prophecy to today, but not the other??
Now, why would that be?

 

The mark of the beast is clearly displayed as a testing insignia to determine, in part, whether one can buy or sell. Revelation 13:13-17. I can't really see a UN cop stopping someone at the door of the supermarket and asking "do you worship on the first or seventh day of the week" as a determining factor to permit entrance into the store. Revelation 13-14 clearly show that the mark is something that can be physically and visibly verified.

 

You evaded my question and simply made excuses for not answering it.
It doesn't matter what others say.
What is moral about keeping the Sabbath?
How does it make me a better person?
If I worship on the five weekdays and rest on Saturday and Sunday would that not make me a better person because I will learn far more than you would?
The fact that I don't steal; don't commit adultery is moral. They make me a better person.
How does worshiping on any certain day make me a better person and relate to my morality. Please explain.

 

Jesus made the case several times that it was "moral" to break the sabbath for various reasons.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:​

In this verse, Jesus uses the example of David, when he was on the run from Saul, how he went into the temple and the temple priests gave him the temple shewbread (and Goliath's sword) on the sabbath. Then in Mark 3, Jesus went on to heal a man on the sabbath.

Isa 1:11 "What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?" says the LORD. "I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony?
13 Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts; the incense of your offerings disgusts me! As for your celebrations of the new moon and the Sabbath and your special days for fasting— they are all sinful and false. I want no more of your pious meetings.​

 

Jesus was teaching quite the opposite. He said he was the Lord of the Sabbath; not that the Sabbath was the Lord of him. Take everything into context. Therefore the sabbath was was made for mankind, and not the other way around. Man was not be a slave to the sabbath.

I have already answered this. The Sabbath was made for man.
If I buy a computer FOR my son, then the computer is for my son. The computer does not rule my son, but my son is owner of the computer. The computer is FOR my son. He does what he wants with it.
The sabbath is for mankind, to worship as he wants. He is not a slave to it. He doesn't keep it legalistically; Jesus didn't. He and his disciples picked corn on the sabbath, healed on the sabbath, etc. They violated the traditions of the Rabbis who made the sabbath a slave to them.

Further proof that the sabbath is for man, and not the other way around. You are making my point.
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This sabbath was given to the Israelites. You will never find any command to the Gentile Christians that they are to keep the Sabbath. Exodus 31 explains that it is a sign between Jehovah and Israel, and for their generations forever.
There is nothing moral about keeping the Sabbath. It is not part of the moral law.

Think of it this way.
God has written his moral law on every man's heart. Men every where no instinctively that it is wrong to kill, wrong to steal, wrong to commit adultery. That is God's moral law.
But they don't know instinctively that it is wrong to break the Sabbath. There is nothing immoral about not worshiping on the Sabbath for a tribal people in Africa; but they know it is wrong to murder. Not to keep the Sabbath has nothing to do with morals.

 

DHK, I think you misread - I said that it WAS moral to break the sabbath.

I agree with everything you've said.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said.
What is moral about keeping the Sabbath?
What is immoral about breaking the Sabbath?
The Sabbath or fourth commandment, according to Exodus 31, is for the Jews. It is irrelevant to the Gentile Christian.

 

Ok, I see what you are getting at. When said "it is moral" what I mean was that it was not "immoral"... but I don't like to use double negatives.

I often see the law similarly to the way I see light and temperature. Darkness is not a thing, it is the absence of light. Cold is not a thing, it is the absence of heat. Similarly, I was using the term "moral" as that which does not break the law. A transgressor of moral law would be an immoral person. A person who sins is a sinner. To NOT be a sinner, do not break the law. To be moral, simply do not transgress morality. I see "moral" as containing both positively moral things and neutrally moral things.

Breaking the sabbath is not positively moral, nor is it positively immoral. Therefore, in the absence of being positively immoral, I call it moral.

But I agree with you that there is nothing immoral about failing to keep the sabbath, and I agree with you that it is irrelevant to the Christian.

 

Any "law" of God by definition is moral. The morality does not have to be inherent in the "law" for it to be "moral." It is "immoral" to violate it simply because God commanded it. There is nothing moral or immoral about 24 hours of time or any period of time but the fact that God commanded a certain observation of a certain period of time makes it moral due to the ORIGIN of that law because violating is defiance against the Person who commanded it.

 

Commanded whom? Jews or Gentiles also?

We agree that one cannot lose their salvation over failing to keep the sabbath day, correct?

 

Jesus said that the original Sabbath in Genesis 2:3-3 "was made FOR MAN"! He did not say "FOR ISRAEL" or "FOR JEWS" or "FOR GOD." You cannot change that fact by no amount of rationalizations.

Second, before God ever gave it to Israel in Covenant form in Exodus 20 he condemned them for violating "my Sabbath" in Exodus 16. Tell me where did they receive that command prior to Exodus 20????????

 

I see the basis for the Sabbath, but can you show me which verse says "sabbath" and which verse says "for man"? I don't see any commandments given regarding the sabbath in Genesis 2.

Did you read Exodus 16? Moses commands the people to gather twice as much on the 6th day and not to gather on the 7th. It is only when people don't listen to him and go out to gather on the 7th day and find no manna that God asks them how long they would refuse His commandments. Note that he also commanded them in Exodus 16 to eat everything they gathered and not leave anything until they next day. Surely you're not suggesting that this was to be the universal law to all of mankind... not to store food until the next day?

Twice Moses gives commandment from God regarding the manna and says not to gather on the 7th day.

Interestingly enough, Exodus 16 is the first time the word Sabbath is used in scripture. Note God says:

Exd 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.​

This is consistent with Jesus' statements that Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. The fact that this was instituted by Moses is demonstrable of The Law, for this is what Moses represents in scripture.

For example, Moses not being able to enter the "promised land" because of one act of disobedience is consistent with the way The Law works, yet this was not part of the 10 commandments, or the moral or social laws. Joshua (which is allegorically Jesus) lead them into the promised land.

 

Jesus said that all creation is made for man. Are we to worship all creation?
Your arguments fail miserably.

 

The statement explicitly says "the Sabbath was made for man"! The context is dealing with the Sabbath not creation.

Where can you find IN THAT CONTEXT a similar statement about creation?

Where did the command originate for Israel's disobedience to the Sabbath in Exodus 16 four chapters previous to giving the fourth commandment to Israel? I suggest it came from Genesis 2:2-3 handed down from generation to generation to Moses before Exodus 20 command. If you disagree, then point to any other source.

 

Genesis 2:2,3 There is no command in those verses.
Exodus 20:7-11. This is a command given to Israel alone as verified in Exodus 31.
Mark 7. The Sabbath was given for man; FOR him, not that man should be a slave to the sabbath. Man was not given to the sabbath; but the sabbath was given for man; just like a father gives a gift for a son. The gift doesn't rule over the son. He does what he wants with it.
The Gentile believer has never been subjected to the Sabbath; it was given to the Jew.

 

Exd 16:23 And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake [that] which ye will bake [to day], and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day [is] a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, [which is] the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, [that] there went out [some] of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

The command originated in Exodus 16:23. God complains about their disobedience ONLY after Moses had given them the command. Verse 23 is also the first time the word "sabbath" is used in scripture.

 

You CANNOT pick and choose the Covenant to be under, IF you insist to have the Sabbath as binging to yourself as it was unto Isreal, you MUST also agree to keep all the Mosaic provosions of the Law mpw!

can you agree to do that, in order to "keep saved?"