To Stumble

That was not the issue and the presumption you give is speculative at the very best.

How far does scripture tell us.
Why is it many believers search for the least the have to do in love rather ask what more can they do?

But Paul, nor any other writers of scripture, on this subject, state that is to be determined by culture. It is determined by love and for the spiritual growth of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Then you have not been listening to the argument.
This is what I told you in the last alcohol thread where I made some posts. My point has NOTHING to do with every believer everywhere. Scripture speaks of those within our sphere of influence or better those who are in our lives. It is these whom we have to do and whom God has placed in our lives.

Again, I find it odd that many believers ask how little they need to do out of love for another.

Again, you ignore the argument before us. This is about stumbling. You have no idea, clue, or intelligent grasp of what might cause another to stumble - and for that matter nor do I. It is not up to us to decide what we think 'will' or 'will not' cause a brother to stumble.. it is our mandate to see that we 'are not' that cause if we can help it.

 

Here's the thing; We as Christians use a very tight theology on the actual circumstances of stumbling within the context of the passages of Scripture. Then we divorce ourselves from any responsiblilty to use any common sense of love and concern for others to apply this so as not to cause a brother to stumble, because we are first place, and to do so wouldn't be exactly like the passage in every single minute detail. So it is tough on them, we say in our hearts, and who cares about them. It's selfishness and is philautos, and is nothing like the selfless person of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

....and which I believe is the scriptural instruction given to us:

The faith which thou hast, have thou to thyself before God. Happy is he that judgeth not himself in that which he approveth. Ro 14:22

To some, it may seem hypocritical, but if there's something I don't consider to be sin, but some others do, I will not deliberately or intentionally do it in their presence. But that doesn't mean that I'll stop doing it. I'm just not going to flaunt the liberty that I believe that I have in Christ, for their sake, only.

 

I totally agree also. And what about those who want to take away your liberty to drink.....Isnt that an abuse of power that has already proven to be ineffective?

 

I think we need to draw a distinction between an action (drinking, for instance) which could cause one to stumble, and an action which offends someone.

Our society is permeated with the attitude that yields to the tyranny of the offended. Witness the wimpiness of such groups which soften how we discuss Christmas (sorry, the winter solstice). Schools now have a "winter holiday" instead of Christmas break. This is in districts which 99.5 per cent of the students come from a Judeo-Christian culture.

Maybe we ought to define stumbling. If it means that a non-drinker might start drinking because he sees me doing it (in violation of his conscience), then I can see some restraint on my part.

If, on the other hand, he's a drinker, but thinks Christians ought not to, and sees me drinking, and might be put off by Christianity for that reason, then that's a different animal.

Another question. Will your actions be based on the possibility that one may stumble, or the likelihood?

And should our responses to lost people be the same, or similar, to our responses to fellow believers (weaker brothers)?

BTW, I don't drink.

 

I see, you just wanted to hear someone agree with you. Why post on a debate forum?

 

Common sense is a good thing.

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all men liberally, and reproaches not; and it shall be given him.

 

Romans 14 is clear it's not a one way street catering to the "stumblee" only. If I cause a "weaker brother" to stumble I would do my best to strengthen that brother, not conform to his "weakness".

 

why are you concerned with what I think?

 

Good answer!

 

...and like I told you on that other thread, it is not a "yes or no" question. Many factors play into it. If I knew someone was a recovering alcoholic and I offered him a drink and he stumbled, of course. If someone was a recovering alcoholic and sees me out in a restaurant drinking, goes home and stumbles? No. If he approached me later telling me he stumbled due to seeing me, I would take him through the Scripture including Romans 14.

 

Maybe not being a yes or no question has something to do with it? :BangHead:

 

Amy, you are offending me since you are a woman and are instructing people on this board. Now will you cease and desist posting?


:smilewinkgrin:

OF COURSE YOU KNOW I'M JOKING..

But I am sure there are some bigots out there that thinks this about women.. so should women quit posting because it may cause a man to stumble, and accidentally be taught by a woman?