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Featured To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Jul 26, 2022.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Can they do such by own accord, or do they need to have the Holy Spirit and His gracing to be able to do such?
     
    #41 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. BUT that in itself is not Pelagianism. AND to my knowledge nobody on this forum has taken that position.
     
    #42 JonC, Jul 31, 2022
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again a Falselogy advocate has misrepresented the biblical view presented in scripture. Ask yourself, does salvation depend at all on the person who wills to be saved or does something, such as trust fully in Christ, to be saved? Nope, Romans 9:16 precludes that view. But the Falselogy poster falsely claims that was my view. Unspeakable.
     
    #43 Van, Jul 31, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Pel position denies have been affected by fall of Adam, denies Spiritual death, denies sin natures, so is truly heresy!
     
    #44 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Is the very basis of our salvation the will of God, or our will?
     
    #45 JesusFan, Jul 31, 2022
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Nobody ever said it was not a heresy.

    Here is an example of what you are doing by calling those who disagree with you on this thread a Pelagian when they do not hold Pelaganism:

    You say Jesus is the Son of God. Jehovah Witnesses say Jesus is the Son of God. Therefore you are a Jehovah's Witness.

    Do you not get it? We all agree Pelaganism is a heresy. But you accuse those who agree it is a heresy as holding to Pelagianism because they disagree with you regarding the RCC doctrine of original sin, because they believe all men are drawn and can choose, etc.

    The problem here is too many Calvinists have taken to calling members heretics holding Pelaganism when nobody here has expressed Pelaganism.
     
    #46 JonC, Jul 31, 2022
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I do not call heretics any who hold to either Arminian or Semi pel views, just full blown pel!
     
    #47 JesusFan, Aug 1, 2022
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You said the belief that man can come to God by his own ability is Pelaganism (what you say is a heresy).

    BUT semi-Pelagianism believes man can come to God by his own ability (which you claim is NOT a heresy).

    The problem is you call people's views Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism when they are neither. You use those false teachings as an insult.
     
    #48 JonC, Aug 1, 2022
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Semi Pels would see us as being sinners, who have free will remaining, but MUST be first graced by the Holy Spirit to decide for Christ, but full pel deny have sin natures, and hold to full free will!
     
    #49 JesusFan, Aug 1, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ok, I see. You do not understand what semi-Pelagianism means.

    Semi-Pelagianism is defined in a document titled De gratia. It is a compromise between Augustine and Pelagius.

    Semi-Pelagianism (unlike Pelagianism) affirms the doctrine of Original Sin as defined by the Roman Catholic Church. They affirmed the necessity of God's grace to overcome original sin as expressed in this world. Semi-Pelagianism also views baptism as necessary for salvation.

    BUT, unlike Augustine, Semi-Pelagianism taught that the innate corruption of man was not so great that men was unable to turn to God via his own natural will.

    Semi-Pelagianism holds that men, of their own natural will, turn to God for salvation but cannot be converted except via God.

    You have called members views Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism, but nobody on this forum that I know of have ever expressed either view.
     
    #50 JonC, Aug 1, 2022
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Semi pel are those who would hold to us co assisting God to save us, while full blown Pel hold that we can still freely and fully get saved apart from God doing anything towards us!
     
    #51 JesusFan, Aug 2, 2022
  12. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    3 Types of Theology | Ligonier Ministries
    And yes, much of modern day Christianity seems to fall into that camp!
     
    #52 JesusFan, Aug 2, 2022
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    None degree. Can a dead corpse assist God in raising it from the dead ?
     
    #53 Brightfame52, Aug 4, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.    .. Brother Glen:)
     
    #54 tyndale1946, Aug 6, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 2
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    No, it can't read today's newspaper headline, much less,
    raise themselves from the dead as if they are Jesus??

    Jesus did that.

    Jesus Has the Power of Life over Death.

    Jesus is The Savior.
     
    #55 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Sound Doctrine.

    And all scriptures must reconcile with this Revelation from God.
     
    #56 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Pel = 50% man/ 50% God
    semi-Pel =100% man/ 0% God

    ???
     
    #57 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2022
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    To What Degree do you believe a lost soul
    Assists God in their "Salvation"?

    What "percentage"??
     
    #58 Alan Gross, Aug 7, 2022
  19. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I think brethren misunderstand The Doctrine Of Total Depravity... Until we were regenerated, we were alive... And as the children of disobedience, until we were by the Holy Spirit regenerated we served the Devil... The Prince Of The Power Of The Air... None are exempt... We ALL did!... But to God, we were dead in trespasses and in sin... We were as dead as a corpse in the cemetery and had the same ability to save ourselves... None... Then The Holy Spirit according to the will of God entered our lives and changed us, putting the love of God in us, he didn't do it because our goodness but according his mercy and amazing grace and the Faith Of his Son the LORD Jesus Christ, whose life, death, burial and resurrection, paid the ultimate price, for you and I... Brother Glen:)

    The written gospel instructs the saved... The Living Gospel (Jesus Christ alone) saves ALL his Father gave him!
     
    #59 tyndale1946, Aug 7, 2022
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Are you asking if one has to be regenerated before they can turn to God. That is a Calvinist doctrine as one being regenerated is = to one being saved. So Calvinists have the person saved before they believe or as they say God has to give them faith to believe.

    But as the bible says we are without excuse because what can be know of God is evident and we know the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin and draws us through the gospel message and when we respond by faith in Christ Jesus, God the Father saves us.

    And in response to the post title
    "To What Degree do you believe a lost soul Assists God in their "Salvation"?"

    None, God saves those that trust in the Son. That is not assisting God, that is depending on God.
     
    #60 Silverhair, Aug 7, 2022
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