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Featured To whom is this reference applied?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Nov 20, 2021.

  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Here is a short statement from Hebrews:
    Hebrews 9:13–15 (NKJV): 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
    Does this apply to the Jews?

    Does this apply to Gentiles?

    Does this apply to both Jews and Gentiles?

    Previously, the writer was comparing how the earthly worship center and the earthly administration of that center was a picture of that unseen and not made by humans. That the covenant originally given was vanishing as a new was established, and all Israel and Judah would have hearts and minds changed by God.

    Then along the way, these verses occur and following the theme of the comparison between the earthly and heavenly continues.

    So, which do these verses apply and why?
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The Church is Israel. So it applies to believing Israel into whom we believing gentiles were grafted. Unbelieving Israel was cut off when Christ abolished circumcision on the cross. They are in truth gentiles with Jewish customs and nothing more.
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I understand your point, but is there a specific reference concerning the abolishment of circumcision or is the matter of all the ritual law being set aside except the two the apostles told the Gentiles to keep that is relied upon.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. With Ephesians 2:12 in mind.
     
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Paul is the main teacher on Christ abolishing circumcision. They persecuted him for teaching against it. Surely you are familiar with these verses. And the Law is totally missing from the Apostle's directions for new gentile converts. Circumcision, not genetics, made one a physical Jew and member of Israel. So when Christ abolished it, the unbelieving Jews defaulted to gentile status. The believing Jews remained Israel as well as the believing gentiles who joined them.
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I agree, however, the passage also specifies Israel and Judah and the whole of the earlier and later chapters represent the previous covenant practices in comparison to that now in effect.

    The presentation that God purposefully does the work of this passage without even the cooperation of the involved, only their compliance, is so confirming within my own life, may His will be done.

    I have held for many decades that God would eventually place His Spirit into the hearts of all Jews, but that the climax of that happening would occur at the millennium where they shall look upon Him who they pierced and mourn.
     
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    God appointed them to wrath until the end of the world says, Paul. Hitler and over 100 nations who slaughtered them attest to this. They are in fact gentiles and are saved the same way any gentile is. Through faith in Christ. Once you realize the Church is Israel, all of the Dispensational stuff evaporates.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps, but do I detect some kind of replacement theology in which the church is not grafted into but Israel is grafted into?
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Believers only are grafted into Israel the Church. Some are Israeli gentiles.

    Proof?
    “You will be to me a kingdom of priests, my holy nation. Those are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.’” Exodus 19:6 (REB)

    1 Peter 2:9 Peter proclaims this of the Church showing the Church is Israel.

    “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)
     
  10. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Is Peter not stating that his (Peter’s) background as chosen from that generation of Jews, who were a holy nation given the care of the oracles of God, and a peculiar people because of their worship, dress, manner of living and rules; therefore, the Gentiles should display praises of the Christ who called also called the Gentiles out of darkness into His awesome light?
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    He is speaking to the Church. Confirming we are Israel. When Christ abolished circumcision, all unbelieving Jews became gentiles.
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    BOTH Jews and Gentiles, the entire human race, WITHOUT ANY EXCEPTIONS!
     
  13. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Very good.

    Peter is not just speaking to Jews, but rather to both Gentiles and also Jews not of the house of Levi. “Ye are a …”.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    I really don't know WHERE you get your "theology" from???
     
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Do you take that all those called will receive (obtain) or might receive (obtain)?

    Is “may” granting permission, or is “may” expressing a choice?

    As the statement: “… that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.”
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Christ chose Judas to be one of the 12 Disciples, whom He had CALLED!
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jewish Christians. The unbelievers were reduced to gentiles only readmitted to Israel upon acceptance of Christ.
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    To all people
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jeremiah 31:31, "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: . . ." Ephesians 2:12.
     
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Doesn’t it state, “…To those who are called…” ?
     
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