Too free or not too free, that is the question.

If one believes in irresistable grace then Jesus was not God because Judas rebelled.

 

My guess is that you can't read the above. You don't konw Greek, as I recall. And the English "were having been" is a perfect tense, meaning that the "disposition" (an unfortunate translation) happened before the believing.

 

Larry;
If these gentiles were glad then they believed before.
This verse does not stand on anything but the fact they were saved to. This is the subject and obviously they weren't sure, so when they heard, they were glad they weren't left out. As far as support for being Ordained first it doesn't say if they were or not That's just your input. You first claimed the chronology of the verse because the word ordained appeared first That this shows that we are ordained first.
This is what you originally claimed;

The chornology has nothing to do with it and I walked right through Act 13:48.
Cassidy;
It's funny You don't have anything I'm affraid of, or avoid.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

Jarhed, Learn to format your posts properly.

Yes I did.

That wasn't the issue.

Yes, and you believed in time after the foundation of the world, and God chose you before the foundation of the world. This is a matter fo the text of Scripture, what it says. I don't understand why you are not letting the text say what it says.

That is totally irrelevant to this discussion however. We all agree on that.

I have not problem being illogical in favor of Scripture. It shows that we are not the system driven by logic; you are.

Both assertions are correct: It all came from God and must be interpreted by itself. But only one comes from 2 Peter. The second does not.

You are correct on this. And this is precisely why we must reject your position. It does not take into account all of Scripture in its context.
_________________________________

On this post, i was trying to respond to jarhed and apparently hit edit instead. His post is found in the quotes. Sorry Jarhed.

[ November 03, 2005, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

No, it does say that ordained came first. Read teh verse, study the tenses, and it becomes very clear.

[qutoe]You first claimed the chronology of the verse because the word ordained appeared first That this shows that we are ordained first.
This is what you originally claimed;[/quote]Where did I claim anything about word order?

 

Larry;

Page 1,11th post down. Which was your original claim. Do you deny that now.

In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

Come on guys you are fishing for reasons to prove LArry wrong, if you continue to read he clarifies the greek wording, by saying it is the tense that decides what comes first, quit ignoring the stuff that makes your argument incorrect. Larry did not say what you are atrributing to him.

 

Timothy27;

Only because he is wrong.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

Only if you ignore what he is saying in his posts.

 

Page 1,11th post down. Which was your original claim. Do you deny that now.

In The Light Of Christ;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]This appears to be an honest mistake on your part due to unclear wording on my part. However, the subsequent posts about grammer did clear this up and apparently you missed it.

Go back and think about what was said. The point I made had nothing to do with word order. You misread it. I wasn't wrong. In the verse, the ordaining precedes the belief in terms of grammar, not word order.

Sorry you misunderstood. But you should have learned from seeing it clarified in subsequent posts.

You can't argue word order from Greek (or any language for that matter). Verb tense determine priority of action.

 

Larry;
It cracks me up that you find it necessary to blame me for your mistake.
Your subsequent post.

First we weren't talking about Act 13:38 but 13:48. And the verse doesn't say what you and Cassidy says it does at all. It says they believed and as many that did were ordained to eternal life.
In The Light Of Christ;
Mike

 

How does that compute with coming to Christ with the trust of a little child? They dont have to read the original manuscripts or to know Greek to be able to place their trust in Christ do they? If Christ causes one to hunger and thirst for Him and they submit to Him as a bondslave its a pretty sure thing that person was chosen before the foundation of the world to be one of Christ's own!!
Now, according to your " those who belive were appointed" that surely gets the cart before the horse as we who are appointed to eternal life will at the given time believe!!

 

TCassidy,

Your presupposition leads you to believe that the words, 'as many as were disposed to eternal life, believed,' suggesting that they only believed in Jesus because He ordained them for this lot in life.

No, what the scholars mean is that the Holy Spirit disposed people to either reject or to received Christ. Those, obviously, who believed in Acts 13:48 welcomed His grace and were saved having become the elect ones and worthy, through Christ, as receiving eternal life.

A disposition to believe comes from the ministry of the Holy Spirit and in finality by the movement of the human will to receive Him. Every sinner has a free will and has a human volition. When sinners hear the Gospel they are called on by God to decide where they want to spend eternity.

 

You said, 'Can God save babies that are from one day to lets say 4 years old? Yes or no?'