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TULIP for Real Life

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by loDebar, Aug 6, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    TULIP is applied to a common world situation to show the logic.

    The transit system through Atlanta is called MARTA, a system of trains and buses to move people around Atlanta. It cost billions of dollars and over the years has expanded service to surrounding counties. It is most used during rush hour and often times empty seats are available depending on the time and destinations.
    Their TULIP is this way.

    Total inability to move themselves travel individually though Atl. is difficult due to automobile traffic congestion and it is too far to walk

    Unconditionally available to use, If one has a ticket, one can ride. anytime , and never get off

    Limited access, Only those who are users can ride.

    Irresistible , If you are a rider, you are gonna ride. no choices, only system, roads are congested, distance is too far

    Perseverance of the rider, Marta will take you were you want and not make you get off somewhere else

    So the authority that runs Marta , build the system only for users, not for non users.
    If you lived in rural GA, to bad, you are a non user

    Since the system was only built for users, one cannot be a non-user and become a user, It was not built for non users.

    What about the extra seats?
    Even though a lot of seats are empty, this system was only built for users, not non users.

    Marta carries 100% of the those users who ride Marta. There are no seats for those who do not ride. It was designed that way.

    It is apparent the logic used by Calvin is as TULIP is as the logic used here. neither fit the situation
     
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Once again you prove you were correct when you said you didn't have a clue about so-called "calvinism."

    TULIP is based on the "5 Heads of Doctrine" published in 1619, 55 years after Cauvin died.

    And "TULIP" was made popular by Loraine Boettner’s book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, published in 1932. 364 years after Cauvin died.

    And the first recorded use of the term was in 1905. 341 years after Cauvin died.

    So, obviously, TULIP was not something Cauvin used. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    The admins solved the problem. They got rid of the source. I was going to leave before I lashed out at someone espousing gross heresy on here. They’re gone and I decided to say. I PM’d an admin asking them to retire my account, but they told me to report the offending post. Thankfully, they saw what I saw. Kudos to them.
     
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Maybe tone down your mind-reading act just a bit.

     
  5. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I am not mind-reading. He’s exposing himself via his posts.
     
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  6. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Mark 8 : 34
     
  7. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I'm not seeing it in this post. I thought the OP was a clever analogy, and an insightful way to draw a parallel to TULIP.

    It's miles better than the analogy "God elects you in eternity past but you did not become saved until a later date, just like we elect the President to the office in November, but he doesn't become President until January."
     
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Great verse. I agree with it. So?
     
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 1:1-11 can’t be any clearer if it tried.
     
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say anything about Ephesians 1, I said the analogy of being the President being elected to office in November but not in office until January was a weak one.
     
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    We were chosen from before the foundation/creation of the world. However, our salvation occurred many millennia later.
     
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    He is writing to those already saved called to service.
     
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Eph 1:13

    In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    Read the verses
     
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    It’s not just a call to service. Service is part of a Christian’s life, but one can’t be called to service without first being called to salvation.

    Ephesians 1...
    The Blessings of Redemption
    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.[vss 1,2]

    Paul lays out who is being addressed here. It’s believers in Ephesus. Those who are called saints.


    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.[vss 3-6]

    No where does Paul mention being called to service. We were chosen by God from before the foundation/creation of the world. He predestined us to adoption as sons through the Christ, not to service. He did this, not because we wanted Him, but because He loves us. He did this because it was His will and pleasure to do so.

    In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,[vss 7-11]

    Again, there is no mention of being called to service. We have been called to salvation through the Christ. Service is part of being a Christian, but you can’t be called to service without first being called to salvation.
     
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  15. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I agree with this. So? What about those who died never hearing the gospel? How can they be called to service?
     
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yes, that is the standard Calvinist response. So were you saved before the foundation of the world or not?
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    No. We were elected to salvation. Salvation takes place in time.
     
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    No. The biblical response.
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I see. So God looks down the corridors of time to see when we will be saved. Understand now.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
  20. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Nope, not hardly. He chose us in Christ from before...

    The vessels of mercy were taken from the same clump the vessels of wrath were in.[Romans 9]

    Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.[vss 21-24]

    This election by God happened before He said, “Let there be light...”
     
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