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Two Groups of Lost People at the Great White Throne?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Jun 19, 2024.

  1. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    According to Revelation 20, on the surface there seem to be two different groups who are cast into the lake of fire: "death and hell", and "whosoever names are not written in the book of life". My question is this: Why does it mention one group of people that are cast into the lake of fire, and immediately afterward, mention another, when according to scriptures, all to be cast into the lake of fire belong to one group, that of those who have never believed. At the time of judgment, all the lost have already died, because of the return of Christ and of the millennium, so at that time, all the lost will have been in Hell. How do you explain this scripture?
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Actually three groups not having ment one condition.
    From death, from the nether world aka Hades called hell in the KJV and from the sea. All of which did not have their names in the book of life.
    Revelation 20:13-15.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is that in verse 12, the human spirits are "before the throne" and are judged according to the fact their names are not in the Lamb's book of life.

    Then, verse 13, the sea gave up the dead (referring to the resurrected bodies of those buried at sea) and Death and Hades gave up the resurrected bodies located in the "dominions of darkness."

    At this point the "dominions of darkness" have no one in them and are without purpose, so they are destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
     
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Destroyed meaning what?
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    It's just parallelism, saying the same thing twice with different phrasing. That's how Hebrew poetry works, and John was certainly Jewish.
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Death and Hades are destroyed, they no longer exist as domains of darkness.
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You suppose. It is written of death, 1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    That word καταργειται
    doesn't mean to cease to exist.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am aware that a group of misguided folks try to redefine the meaning of destroy, such that it does not include the concept of ending existence. I suspect you are a member of that group, but it is only a guess as you have only said what you claim is inaccurate.

    However, contrary to the claim "katargeō," G2673 does have the meaning of "cause to cease to exist" according to Strong's Lexicon.

    2. to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish: ​

    One of the drivers of this effort at corruption is the doctrine of eternal torment, where rather than at some point those in the Lake of Fire cease to exist, or whether they suffer torment forever and ever.

    As for me, I have no problem accepting as a possibility that "destroy" means "to cause to cease to exist."
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but it is not the meaning of the word.
    Ceasing to "exist" is not included.

    Death in the place called the second death.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Folks, I kid you not, ". to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish," is said not to be mean cease to exist.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    To cease can mean not to exist, but doesn't in the second death. Isaiah 66:24, for their worm{singular} shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; . . . Revelation 21:8, in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Remember when Jesus was bearing our sins on the cross, Matthew 27:46, Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? He was fully conscious, and existing bearing our sins.
     
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why not explain what you think is the correct interpretation, rather than simply posting taint so over and over.

    The Lake of Fire and its destructive and tormenting power (the worm) does not cease to exist, it cannot and will not cease to exist, as Satan and his co-horts will be tormented forever and ever in it.

    Next you use "second death" as only meaning eternal torment. Nope. The second death is the Lake of Fire and two outcomes are possible for those placed into it, eternal torment or destruction. As Jesus says, fear the one able to destroy the body and the soul in Gehenna.
     
  14. Judith

    Judith Well-Known Member
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    There is only one group, not two or three. That group is the lost. The final judgment will not happen until AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ on earth.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Mine.
     
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