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Two Questions

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Squire Robertsson, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    In this seemingly Orange vs. Green debate, I wear blue. But today, my pastor asked a couple of rhetorical questions about the nature of sin and sinners. I thought they would be good ones for y'all to discuss and chew on here [​IMG] .</font>
    • Are we sinners because we sin?
      or</font>
    • Do we sin because we are sinners?</font>
    To misquote Chairman Kaga on Iron Chef "Allez debate!"

    [ March 24, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    What was your Pastor's conclusion?
     
  3. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Do we sin because we are sinners?

    yes.

    Brother Dallas
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    I agree with, Brother Dallas. [​IMG]
     
  5. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    I third that (I agree with Ken and Dallas).
     
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Fourth - I agree with Dallas, Ken H, and npetreley. We sin because we are sinners. The sin nature exists in us, precedes, and causes the act of sin.
     
  7. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Both statements are 100% true
     
  8. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    The second statement is true, the first statement follows because the second statement is true. This makes both statements true. The second then is the Main Topic of the lives we live, and the second becomes the body. If you develop this into an outline assuming you were to write an essay on the topic.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    b. And has they were rhetorical, he asked them to get the congregation thinking. Sunday mornings he has been preaching on the great salvation words of the NT. Last Sunday, he started his section on The Cross.
     
  10. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    b. </font>[/QUOTE]Pardon me brother, is that b. all you can b., or just b. (period)? :D
     
  11. William C

    William C New Member

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    I also agree. But like Dallas points out I guess in some ways both are correct, but the obvious point of the question is, "Do you believe in original sin?" The answer from both Calvinists and Arminians alike is usually "yes."

    Do we both believe in "Total Inability"? No.

    Why? Original sin is supported in scripture, but total inability is not.
     
  12. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    I also agree. But like Dallas points out I guess in some ways both are correct, but the obvious point of the question is, "Do you believe in original sin?" The answer from both Calvinists and Arminians alike is usually "yes."

    Do we both believe in "Total Inability"? No.

    Why? Original sin is supported in scripture, but total inability is not.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Total inability is a resultant fact because of the original sin.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. William C

    William C New Member

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    I also agree. But like Dallas points out I guess in some ways both are correct, but the obvious point of the question is, "Do you believe in original sin?" The answer from both Calvinists and Arminians alike is usually "yes."

    Do we both believe in "Total Inability"? No.

    Why? Original sin is supported in scripture, but total inability is not.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Total inability is a resultant fact because of the original sin.
    </font>[/QUOTE]When does this result kick in Dallas? At birth. At age 7. At the age of accoutability? At adulthood? When do we know when someone has become "totally unable?"
     
  14. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    it is inherent, we are born with it ingrained into our nature.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  15. William C

    William C New Member

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    So your arguing that man is born "totally unable" once again even though the scripture is clear that people are not born unable to see, hear and understand but they become that way through the process of hardening.

    Do you disagree with Romans 1 which clearly teaches that they BECAME futile and depraved, not that they were born already futile and depraved?

    What about where it teaches that God "gave them over?" Do you believe that they were "given over" at birth eventhough this passage clearly shows that it wasn't until they had denied God's revelation of himself and lived in sinful rebellion that they were "given over?"

    This is a significant contradiction in your system. (Do I need to give you some "wiggle room"? [​IMG] )
     
  16. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I agree with Dallas, Ken H, npetreley and rlvaughn.

    Here you can play with this one!

    1. Jesus Christ died for the all of the sins of all men or

    2. Jesus Christ died for the all of the sins of some men or

    3. Jesus Christ died for the some of the sins of all men... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist [​IMG]
     
  17. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    No, I will stand on the eternal Rock which is Christ and the Word of God.

    Romans 1 describes the 'intellectual' knowledge of God. Salvation is an eternal condition where those who are elect were in Christ at the Cross and here the sins of the elect were judged. One who has no interest in God, nor His Christ beyond the creation of the natural world, they have no part in Christ, as Bro. Glen points out, the sins (and sin nature of these) was not judged at Calvary.

    Now that I have explained that to you, throw aside your doubts and stand on the truth of God's Sovereign Word. You will find no need for squirming.

    God Bless.
    Bro.Dallas
     
  18. William C

    William C New Member

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  19. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Scriptures say that The Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world, is for the sins of the world. Since this world is the only place we have any knowledge of, it seems that Jesus died for all the sins of all mankind, including Adam.

    You cannot however equate atonement for sins to mean that there is no reason to confess our own individual sins. Atonement is the payment of the penalty for sin, where confession is the individuals acknowledgement of his sins that enables cleansing from unrighteousness and repentence from sins.
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    So according to you if you embrace question number one you are an Arminian!

    If you embrace question number two you are of the Calvinist persuasion!

    What are you if you embrace question number three?... Besides :confused: Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist [​IMG]
     
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