Featured Two types of Yayin/Wine in Bible Times?

Seminary President Albert Mohler, preaching on alcohol, rebukes the faulty assumptions and immaturity of you 'Baptist booze boosters':

SBTS Theology Forum

 

Mohler's wrong. The word translated "wine" all 39 times in the New Testament, is the Greek oinos and most assuredly means alcoholic wine.

 

Luke..please get this....

Luke..Brother...I mean you no ill will or disrespect. I don't talk much about my past and won't go into much detail here. The Lord knows EVERYTHING. But just know this...there was a time about ten years AFTER I got saved when I did TURN AWAY from the things that I had been taught in the IFB churches I was involved in. ( Honestly it all happened after a bad marriage and my 1st wife leaving and divorcing me) When that happened, I drifted right back into the wicked lifestyle that I had lived before I was saved in 1977. I wound up wasting nearly 18 years away from the Lord going my own fruitless way seeking some kind of "happiness" that I knew would never come apart from Christ. I QUESTIONED everything there was to question. The only thing that made any sense was "REPENT". But I persisted in my rebellion and in the process went through another bad marriage, much moral wickedness, and saw both my precious sons reject the "faith" that I now live by. Sin has a HIGH COST. The only thing I can say is that, praise God, He is merciful, loving and forgiving...and while I did give up and "quit" on Him...He never quit on me. Hopefully...maybe in the course of time He may mercifully "restore what the cankerworm hath eaten" and save my sons. They had to endure my drinking, smoking, carousing, and well...SIN...when I should have been rearing them in the fear and admonition of the Lord. I think it is nothing less than the fear and wisdom of God to flee from the things of the flesh and too many (or any) entanglements with this world. We should live as CLOSE TO Titus 2:11 - 15 as we possibly can. I'm not gonna argue this point any further here...I'm just going to continue on the path I know to be true and right in His sight. By the way...I attend an SBC fellowship these days....but I will say that I do consider myself to be a Baptistic Fundamentalist/Biblicist....just for the record.

Bro.Greg

 

Greg, you're retreating from the discussion because you know if you stay we are going to completely undermine your arguments and then you are not going to be able to justify why you advocate for these standards of yours.

As long as you retreat, you will never get the truth.

Your primary mistake is conflation. Let me provide a definition of that term:

to combine two or more separate things, especially pieces of text, to form a whole:

You conflate moderation with drunkenness.

You conflate liberty with danger.

You conflate liberty with sin.

The other thing you do is make false assumptions.

You assume that moderate drinking leads to alcoholism. The fact is that hundreds of millions of people in this world drink and are not drunkards. Whole NATIONS drink beer and wine like we drink tea and they function extremely well and actually have less alcoholics than we do.

Your assumptions are simplistic and wrong. This is what fundamentalists do. They have to oversimplify everything. They care more about being able to see things as black and white and crystal clear than they do about TRUTH which is often extremely complex.

I know of dozens of men who drink weekly, many daily who never get drunk and are raising or have raised straight A students, have been soul winners, church builders, money makers and wonderful husbands.

In your world, your very limited world, your very isolated fundamentalist world, these people do not exist. There are fundamentalists and there are drunkards.

But in the REAL world, that is not the case- at all.

In the REAL world THE WORD OF GOD says to go and buy strong drink and come and rejoice before the Lord.

There is this man-made world fundies have made people to believe in and there is the real world.

The real world, God's world that he is taking through Gospel every day, is where I would like to see you live.

 

The first quote does not have Mohler saying that the wine Jesus created is not fermented.

The second quote just has Mohler saying that we ought not swing the pendulum too far the other way and advocate drunkenness.

 

Yes, but we are trying to convince people with facts who do not care about facts. They only care what their favorite preachers say, or what grandma told them or what they grew up believing. they are not ABOUT to let facts get in the way of THAT!!

 

The whole idea and the arguments used to teach the myth of "unfermented wine" were taken from Dr. F.R. Lees and in the Temperance Bible Commentary in the 19th century and then quoted by men like William Patton as historical fact.

However, another Greek classical Scholar who was a "teetotaler" A.M. Wilson whose expertise was in classical Greek literature could not toterate the out right lying, perversion and misquotations used by Lees and the Temperance Bible Commentary and wrote his classic book "Wines of the Bible" in 1877.

Wilson took every quotation used by Lees and the Temperance Bible Commentary and simply placed it back in its context for the readers to see for themselves if any of these quotations used to teach such an idea were true the context they were plucked from demonstrating clearly they taught no such thing in context. C.H. Spurgeon called the book irrefutable and to this day no grape juicer has dared respond to it simply because they cannot as Mason provides both the text before and after every quotation used by grape juicers to teach the myth of unfermented wines.

When I was in college I personally researched the quotations used by Patton. I had my college library, the libraries of Lexington Theological Seminary and the University of Kentucky at my disposal. Every single quotation I researched confirmed Mason's expertise and conclusions.

Amazingly, even the most dimwitted person should be able to see through the quotation Patton, Lee's and the Temperance Bible commentary (and those who quote these sources) took from Ulyses and the Cyclops to be rediculous. They quote the Cyclops asking for more of that "sweet" black wine attempting to prove it had to be grapejuice or a condensed unfermented product of the grape when if they would read the context it was that same "sweet" black wine that got the Cyclops drunk. Surely no one could believe that the grapejuice fermented to alchohol in a matter of a few minutes?????????

Emotion, drinking problems and just poor research and Bible study is the crux of those who assert the myth of "unfermented" wines in the Bible.

 

They were really drinking vodka. The unfermented grape juice was a chaser.