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Featured Two views of being saved

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Different labels and different arguments are used.

    Comes to:
    1) The saved know they are saved now.
    2) The saved cannot know until they have died and or the Judgment.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Point 1 is biblical, while point 2 are Catholics and ever other Ism!
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So the belief one is save and can be lost is some other Ism?

    Maybe 2 should be stated as:
    2) The saved know they are saved now, but it can be lost.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Still same answer, as point 2 not biblical!
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    From my point of view, I agree. But but do not Free Will Baptists believe it is possible to choose leave the faith? Free will.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Part of the problem, I think, is Scripture most often speaks of salvation "on the day" or those "being saved" rather than in the past tense (although that is certainly there as well).

    Maybe it depends on where one focuses attention?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Very few "free will" Christians seem to hold to losing eternal life, as its our decision fully to us from their viewpoint to get saved, but they seem to see God then keeping us saved!
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is good. Does not change the fact some BA Christians deny OSAS. Dr Pickering in his translation notes and others here on the BB.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you have scripture for both sides?
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    With contradictory interpertations. Using the ArmenianIsm Calvinism interpertations that sanctification only begins at salvation, Armenianism wins. Hebrews 10:29.
     
    #10 37818, Apr 8, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but the truth is that Jesus stated plainly that NONE who belong to Him shall EVER be lost again, and that is the final word on the matter!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Apostle John seem to not have gotten that memo, as he plainly stated that we CAN know right now have eternal life in Christ!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews refers to those who just professed Jesus, never were saved, and went back to the Jewish sacrificial system to save them!
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was speaking of the Twelve, John 17:12!
    So are you arguing sanctification precedes the faith?
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So the answer is no, you don't have scripture. You're just making it all up from the imagination of your own mind.

    Follow the concept of covenant the writer is establishing in Hebrews and recognize you are clueless.

    Hebrews 10:19-39

    Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ad hominem. And your view. Personally I hold God saves and keeps whom He saves saved. Those who oppose the idea of OSAS have scriptures they think supports their view. The text in Hebrews 10:29 says "he was sanctified" in the question.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Judas was a devil, never was one of His!
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Boloney.
    I addressed the passage you used in Hebrews 10 and tell you that the author is discussing covenant. I then show you the entire passage. That's no ad hominem, that's you refusing to look at the text and then making up an excuse to avoid it.

    Look at the whole of scripture instead of creating doctrine from a sentence.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The covenant in the Hebews 10:29 question, ". . . the Son of God, . . . the blood of the covenant, . . ." The New Covenant, Hebrews 10:16-18, Jeremiah 31:31-34. Hebrews 10:10.
     
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